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Discussion Starter #1
"There’s a reason Warren Buffett decided to bet $10 billion on the future of oil and natural gas."

“Energy demand worldwide [in 2018] grew by . . . its fastest pace this decade . . . driven by a robust global economy . . . with fossil fuels meeting nearly 70% of the growth for the second year running.”

What if Green Energy Isn’t the Future?


 

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Green energy is defined as renewable natural sources such as sunlight, wind, rain, tides, plants, algae and geothermal ...
Not sure why geothermal is included .. its not renewable .. when its gone, its gone, and so are we ...

Separate challenges/issues ...
1. aircraft
2. ground transportation
3. homes
4. commercial
5. Space travel
6. Pollution

- Solar and wind, with which I have been involved in for some 20 yrs, will be a passing technology of limited use.
- Tidal, not gonna happen in a grand scale ...
- Algae, plants, well, give us unacceptable pollution issues ...

If I was to live another 100 yrs, I put my money on coal, oil, gas, geothermal, trash, and nuclear.
There is enough energy there to easily outlast the human race .. or the planet itself...



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Discussion Starter #3
I surprised you have dismissed tides/waves. The potential energy there is colossal. Although it is very difficult to control
 

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I surprised you have dismissed tides/waves. The potential energy there is colossal. Although it is very difficult to control
l
Exactly, which translates to very very expensive to maintain ...
My life experiences sort of guide my opinions .. maybe right, maybe wrong .. but paying off quite well ...

My college projects included nuclear, missile guidance, and solar projects ...
My professional career included E-boats (subs), nuclear missile guidance and radar tracking ...
My moonlighting was - Palm Springs - wind turbines ...
My FAV sports ... SCUBA, sailing ...

I can/have built solar units out of driveways .. with FREE energy, pennies to build ...
Why everyone doesnt do it? a hassle with so much cheap energy avail ...

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wind same. expensive (easy $300k to $500k per turbine) and limited by narrow window of wind velocity plus controversial bird strikes ...



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Power demand is only going to increase for a while, especially with all the electric cars coming online. I have no doubt that fossil fuel demand will increase. But i'd like the mix overall to include an increasing ratio of other greener options.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It makes us all feel good, but in reality it will have zero effect on climate change and just makes everyone poorer.

All we are doing is playing into China's economic hands. We are cutting back, by making energy very expensive, whilst they bring on new fossil fuel power plants on a scale unimaginable to us.

In the long term it guarantees that China will dominate us (and Europe) economically.
 

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It makes us all feel good, but in reality it will have zero effect on climate change and just makes everyone poorer.

All we are doing is playing into China's economic hands. We are cutting back, by making energy very expensive, whilst they bring on new fossil fuel power plants on a scale unimaginable to us.

In the long term it guarantees that China will dominate us (and Europe) economically.
It's true unfortunately. I very much believe we (everyone) are well and truly effed. Without the entire planet being on board with a plan and willing to pay for it, it's like trying to refill a leaky bucket. You are as good as your weakest link.

I do think we'll eventually figure it out, but not until some major cities are underwater or made uninhabitable by climate change. Human tendency is not to look further ahead than our own nose.

We'll get there guys. In the mean time, tell your children to invest in sand bags, or the high ground.
I think the scifi show The Expanse had it right, build that wall, LOL.

 

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Smart people know that the best future we have to Make America Great Again is to put the children to work in the coal mines. They have the right to work! We have the best coal, believe me. They call it "clean coal". They take the coal out, they clean it. Tremendous.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Even with the whole world on board we are still doomed if the theory is right.

The amount of Co2 reduction required would put us all back in the stone age.

I personally don't take these Soothsayers seriously. It's just a new religion where the climate high priests preach the sermons (but are exempt themselves). They have a track record of failed predictions for almost 50 years.

It's true unfortunately. I very much believe we (everyone) are well and truly effed. Without the entire planet being on board with a plan and willing to pay for it, it's like trying to refill a leaky bucket. You are as good as your weakest link.

I do think we'll eventually figure it out, but not until some major cities are underwater or made uninhabitable by climate change. Human tendency is not to look further ahead than our own nose.

We'll get there guys. In the mean time, tell your children to invest in sand bags, or the high ground.
I think the scifi show The Expanse had it right, build that wall, LOL.
 

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Even with the whole world on board we are still doomed if the theory is right.

The amount of Co2 reduction required would put us all back in the stone age.

I personally don't take these Soothsayers seriously. It's just a new religion where the climate high priests preach the sermons (but are exempt themselves). They have a track record of failed predictions for almost 50 years.
There's a difference between doubting the projections and denying the measurable metrics that have already happened. The ice caps are going somewhere though, sea level is rising. Its pretty indisputable whether you think its man made or natural phenomenon. But like I said, burring our heads in the sand about it is exactly why it will sneak up on us. You won't be alone in doing it, not by a long shot.

I ain't even mad about climate doubters any more, I expect so little positive resolve from people these days. Of course the planet's doomed, of course we will bicker till nothing gets resolved and the time runs out. However, we are resilient, and we will adapt. Our ability to come together after a disaster is really great, but our ability to prevent them has a very poor track record.
 

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Smart people know that the best future we have to Make America Great Again is to put the children to work in the coal mines. They have the right to work! We have the best coal, believe me. They call it "clean coal". They take the coal out, they clean it. Tremendous.
LOL the last 2-3 years have been like watching someone eat their own boot and pretend that it doesn't taste bad.


Funny stuff.


There's decidedly less folks on here these days screaming MAGA, maybe they won't eat the second boot.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No doubt that the climate is changing. If you think about the chances of it staying the same are pretty slim.

Of all the papers I have read on the subject, some by climate experts and some by political hacks. I have never yet read a concrete proposal on how to fix the problem.

All the solutions are very vague and typically involve the imposition on new taxes.

There is never a plan with a reasonable chance of fixing the "problem".

There's a difference between doubting the projections and denying the measurable metrics that have already happened. The ice caps are going somewhere though, sea level is rising. Its pretty indisputable whether you think its man made or natural phenomenon. But like I said, burring our heads in the sand about it is exactly why it will sneak up on us. You won't be alone in doing it, not by a long shot.

I ain't even mad about climate doubters any more, I expect so little positive resolve from people these days. Of course the planet's doomed, of course we will bicker till nothing gets resolved and the time runs out. However, we are resilient, and we will adapt. Our ability to come together after a disaster is really great, but our ability to prevent them has a very poor track record.
 

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No doubt that the climate is changing. If you think about the chances of it staying the same are pretty slim.

Of all the papers I have read on the subject, some by climate experts and some by political hacks. I have never yet read a concrete proposal on how to fix the problem.

All the solutions are very vague and typically involve the imposition on new taxes.

There is never a plan with a reasonable chance of fixing the "problem".
Yep, you are not alone, there are lots of folks waiting with their hands on their hips for a miracle solution. That's super common

There are also plenty of folks like me that are ready to start taking little steps where we can to address the problem.

If we never had a space program until we had a concrete plan to get to the moon, we'd never have gotten there. Good can't be the enemy of perfect, yet we look at it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
With the moon shot, it was decided very early in the program on the basic principles needed to get to the moon. The engineers then worked out the details.

With climate, the only sure thing is that we need more new taxes.

Anything that would DEFINITELY work, like building numerous nuclear plants is verboten.

Yep, you are not alone, there are lots of folks waiting with their hands on their hips for a miracle solution. That's super common

There are also plenty of folks like me that are ready to start taking little steps where we can to address the problem.

If we never had a space program until we had a concrete plan to get to the moon, we'd never have gotten there. Good can't be the enemy of perfect, yet we look at it that way.
 

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The real reason Warren Buffet did not invest, the people who run and push Clean or Renewable Energy companies are total idiots and have no business sense. Just look at good old Solendra as a prime example.



I'll put solar panels on my house only when the local utility pays for them, maintains them at their cost, then sells me discounted electricity for helping them conserve. No way I'm shelling out my money for technology that will be obsolete before it pays for itself.
 

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With the moon shot, it was decided very early in the program on the basic principles needed to get to the moon. The engineers then worked out the details.

With climate, the only sure thing is that we need more new taxes.

Anything that would DEFINITELY work, like building numerous nuclear plants is verboten.
Well, we didn't make it to the moon without taxes. I also don't have a fire department, police department, military, building department, ext without taxes. I guess that makes me a tax loving socialist. Oh well, fine...

I don't have a problem with nuclear power, I have a problem with nuclear waste. Solar waste doesn't keep me up at night. Though I might get end up with cancer from windmill sounds :blink:
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
OK, you don't like nuclear.

What about another proven solution? Hydroelectric power. We could be building more dams and plants to solve the Co2 issue, but no, that's an environmental problem too. So we just slowly remove them.

In other words there is no acceptable solution to the problem. In fact they really arn't looking for solutions, they just want to keep people scared.

Well, we didn't make it to the moon without taxes. I also don't have a fire department, police department, military, building department, ext without taxes. I guess that makes me a tax loving socialist. Oh well, fine...

I don't have a problem with nuclear power, I have a problem with nuclear waste. Solar waste doesn't keep me up at night. Though I might get end up with cancer from windmill sounds :blink:
 
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