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always one fascinating subject ,,
I once dated the X of one of the Captains .. :serious
Also worked the design/mfg of sonars retro/installed at Newport News, VA ...

life under the sea is a crap shoot at best ...

nuke power with nuke weapons …

US has lost 2
Soviet Navy lost 5
Russian Navy lost 2

there are others, but with diesel engines, carrying nukes …

we track all their subs, unsure if they can track all of ours ...

all known units :


0 subs.jpg

our nuclear subs are decedents of Nazi Germany's XXI U-boat technology ...


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Y'know... Maybe it's just me - but I can't help thinking that maybe - just MAYBE - the Russians REALLY shouldn't try mixing submarines & nuclear propulsion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/stricken-russian-nuke-sub-crew-prevented-planetary-catastrophe/ar-AAE1Fn5

Vlad, ol' buddy?? Why don't you guys just go back to diesel?? Because with the nuclear stuff, your track record is ABSOLUTE S**T. (No offense...) /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
Most off the Russian fleet of subs are diesel/electric and are in serious disrepair.
 

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Unfortunately we have had 2 more nuclear subs submerge than have surfaced also. Submarines are incredibly dangerous in general. Nuclear power just adds another very large level of complexity....
 

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Most off the Russian fleet of subs are diesel/electric and are in serious disrepair.
They still have about a dozen Akula's in service IIRC and those are pretty stout subs.

They were building a class after that which were supposedly the most expensive subs on the planet, so not sure if that's still proceeding. I'd think they're devoting a sizeable chunk of the navy's funding to rebuilding ol'smokey aka Kuznetsov, can't imagine the Russians are flush with cash being oil has stayed somewhat low the past 2-3 years.
 

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lets not forget that China and N.Korea are also adding to the world of nuclear subs …

that, to me, is disturbing …


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Most off the Russian fleet of subs are diesel/electric and are in serious disrepair.
They still have about a dozen Akula's in service IIRC and those are pretty stout subs.

They were building a class after that which were supposedly the most expensive subs on the planet, so not sure if that's still proceeding. I'd think they're devoting a sizeable chunk of the navy's funding to rebuilding ol'smokey aka Kuznetsov, can't imagine the Russians are flush with cash being oil has stayed somewhat low the past 2-3 years.
Also obligatory "Be careful, things in thish room doonta react well to bulletsh".
👍👍👍 the Russian Typhoon Class was the big one. It displaced 48,000 tons according to Google. The replacement sub, Borei Class, is a lot smaller and more economical to build.
 

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Many of the Russian subs were built with Titanium hulls which gave them operating depths of almost 3 times that of the Western subs.
DAAAAAMMMNNNN, that couldn't have been inexpensive!! :eek
 

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Yes, but Russia has vast amounts of the stuff. We used Russian titanium for the SR-71 Blackbird during the cold war. (Buying it via third world countries)

Now that I did not know. Can you imagine the cost?
Yes I knew they have the titanium, but still, that had to be some seriously expensive subs to build. Funny part is the buying it through third world countries. Like they'd be needing copious amounts of titanium. Strange how politics work isn't it? Like the Soviets didn't know it was ending up here. Ugh
 

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Called the Alfa class it was and still is the fastest ever fast attack sub ever made, but it also had another little secret it's nuke reactor didn't use water to cool it it used liquid metal Bismuth to cool it. This had two benefits or draw backs on the way you look at it. First it is a much more compact design over a water reactor and so it cut down on the crew for the sub. The Alfas only had around a 45 to 48 man crew vs 130 for a LA class SSN of the US Navy. and since it uses liquid metal there was no intakes for sea water to be drawn in to cool the reactor it was all self contained. So the hull was very slick and streamlined to cut through the water.

So now you are probably wondering what is the down side to this compact and very powerful propulsion system oh plenty, the first one is that the Bismuth has to be around 150 F/ 65 C if you drop below this temp the metal would begin to solidify and once that happen say hello to a worthless paper weight as the reactor would cease to function and would shut down. The other thing was you could go past 40 knots the fastest I think one was recorded was 48 Kts at around 2000 meters for about 50 miles. The Alfa was so fast and feared it caused NATO to bring out the Mk 48 ADCAP torpedo or Mark 48 Advance capability. But all that speed made for a very noisy boat that dash was recorded as far away as Halifax Canada and Maine when it done this speed run in the North Sea!!!! It also was so noisy that it knocked out a few of the sonar systems of the SOSUS net in the GIUK gap. If the Soviets ever would of found this out they might of tried to pull this off with two or three Alfa to effectively blind this monitoring and survalliance system. And was this sub expensive? Oh yes it got the name Zolotaya Rybka (Golden Fish) it had double titanium hull it could dive down to 3500 meters do almost 50 kts in a dash and about 38-41 sustained speed. But again the liquid metal reactor was a pain as the Alfas would be moored to their dock with pipes going from the subs to a large building on land that building housed the warmer so as to prevent the bismuth from solidifying.

The Soviets envisioned the Alfas as a sort of submersible interceptor, where once a threat was detected be it SSBN/ ballistic missile subs or carriers, they would make a mad dash out into the North sea at almost flank speed so as to attack them before they got close enough to the USSR to launch an attack. They had the speed but they didn't have to quiet operation while doing it and would of probably got taken out by a few prowling NATO SSN's in ambush.

And it wasn't third world countries but a bunch of dummy corps that bought the Blackbird Titanium that was run by the CIA. My one uncle worked for NASA and know about two of these dummy corps but he has never said who they was name wise as he didn't want to put his career and retirement at risk. But they would open up offices in places like Switzerland and Czechoslovakia and then proceed to start dealing with the Soviets on projects such as tunneling or mining equipment that would require such strong and durable metal. There has never been an offical count but I seen as high as 15 companies and entities that was run by the CIA involved in operation Ox cart and on the acquisition of the titanium from the USSR, it was enough to do 30 airframes of the A-12 to SR-71C.
 

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Called the Alfa class it was and still is the fastest ever fast attack sub ever made, but it also had another little secret it's nuke reactor didn't use water to cool it it used liquid metal Bismuth to cool it. This had two benefits or draw backs on the way you look at it. First it is a much more compact design over a water reactor and so it cut down on the crew for the sub. The Alfas only had around a 45 to 48 man crew vs 130 for a LA SSN of the US Navy. and since it uses liquid metal there was no intakes for sea water to be drawn in to cool the reactor it was all self contained. So the hull was very slick and streamlined to cut through the water.

So now you are probably wondering what is the down side to this compact and very powerful propulsion system oh plenty, the first one is that the Bismuth has to be around 150 F/ 65 C if you drop below this temp the metal would begin to solidify and once that happen say hello to a worthless paper weight as the reactor would cease to function and would shut down. The other thing was you could go past 40 knots the fastest I think one was recorded was 48 Kts at around 2000 meters for about 50 miles. The Alfa was so fast and feared it caused NATO to bring out the Mk 48 ADCAP torpedo or Mark 48 Advance capability. But all that speed made for a very noisy boat that dash was recorded as far away as Halifax Canada and Maine when it done this speed run in the North Sea!!!! It also was so noisy that it knocked out a few of the sonar systems of the SOSUS net in the GIUK gap. If the Soviets ever would of found this out they might of tried to pull this off with two or three Alfa to effectively blind this monitoring and survalliance system. And was this sub expensive? Oh yes it got the name Zolotaya Rybka (Golden Fish) it had double titanium hull it could dive down to 3500 meters do almost 50 kts in a dash and about 38-41 sustained speed. But again the liquid metal reactor was a pain as the Alfas would be moored to their dock with pipes going from the subs to a large building on land that building housed the warmer so as to prevent the bismuth from solidifying.

The Soviets envisioned the Alfas as a sort of submersible interceptor, where once a threat was detected be it SSBN/ ballistic missile subs or carriers, they would make a mad dash out into the North sea at almost flank speed so as to attack them before they got close enough to the USSR to launch an attack. They had the speed but they didn't have to quiet operation while doing it and would of probably got taken out by a few prowling NATO SSN's in ambush.

And it wasn't third world countries but a bunch of dummy corps that bought the Blackbird Titanium that was run by the CIA. My one uncle worked for NASA and know about two of these dummy corps but he has never said who they was name wise as he didn't want to put his career and retirement at risk. But they would open up offices in places like Switzerland and Czechoslovakia and then proceed to start dealing with the Soviets on projects such as tunneling or mining equipment that would require such strong and durable metal. There has never been an offical count but I seen as high as 15 companies and entities that was run by the CIA involved in operation Ox cart and on the acquisition of the titanium from the USSR, it was enough to do 30 airframes of the A-12 to SR-71C.
Very cool info. The last part makes more sense.
 

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For clarity, definitions:

1st World: Western Bloc led by the USA and its allies.

2nd World: Eastern Bloc led by the USSR, China, and their allies.

3rd World: Non-Aligned and neutral countries.
 
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