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Discussion Starter · #22 ·

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... you must be a young 'un ... :devil

... musta never had to do plugs on a V8 H body either. :devil :devil

"extra charge"
Gotcha. Nope, not that young, in fact old enough to have a bad memory. Had to google H body. ahaha.

I did have one when I was a kid, it wasn't a V8 originally though. A 73 Vega. That thing was a piece of poop, a fast piece though. But you must have meant the Buick and Olds of the 80s though.

I do remember the right rear plug on a 90s Mustang V6, that was one of those extra charge plugs. Had a buddy ask for help. Had a dead miss, said the plugs weren't that old. Well he didn't pay the extra charge apparently, looked like original with well over 100k on it. A 5 plug tune up.

:grin
 

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I knew that would get someone's attention. The point was to emphasize safety. :smile
I have very good jacks and stands, and every time I have found new or better stands, I kept the old ones. I now have about twelve jack stands.That said, I usually use four (3 ton) stands to hold the car, while at the same time placing the four 3-ton red aluminum stands next to the holding stands as “safety stands”. I do not trust the red aluminum stands to be used as primary stands, the hand print is too small, but they are perfect for safety stands.
Note in the pic that my “safety stands” are not touching the car. They are there sort of like cribbing, in case something gives. They are very easy to place and move around as cribbing safety stands when I’m crawling around under the SS. The pic do not show the four in the rear, two holding and two more for cribbing. The silver jack is holding the SS engine because the motor mount has been taken out.:thumbsUp:
Even 4 or 6 stands makes me nervous. I like to use ramps whenever possible then stands on the back if the whole car needs to be raised. Man I wish I had room for a lift!
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Good thread and maybe a first for motor mount problem.

But, why would driving in reverse test the right side mount? In reverse, everything on the engine side of the transmission is still turning in the same direction as in drive, which, due to the engine trying to move opposite the direction of the crank rotation (force equal and opposite direction and all that physics stuff), is where the “lift” is coming from on the engine and exhaust.
Serious question, maybe I’m wrong in my thinking...
2016 SSB, stick, hole, spare
You are correct in your thinking, which leads me to my next comment(s).
Motor mounts breaking from being pulled or pushed on.

When I removed the driver side mount, I noticed that it appeared to have been broken from a tear/ripping force. However, when I removed the passenger side mount, I noticed that it appeared to have been broken from a crushing force with a slight tear. Which supports your point about the engine rotating in the same direction, but yet still able to break both motor mounts, one from tearing/pulling on it (driver side mount) and the other from crushing/pushing on it (passenger side mount).

Thanks for the find, I edited the post.

The pic demonstrates and may further the points:
The mount in the pic on the LEFT (is the driver side) it appears to have been torn/ripped.
The mount in the pic on the RIGHT (is the passenger side) it appears to have been crushed or slightly torn from engine recoil after torque.
 

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Forgive my question because I'm not a motor head, but I am contemplating some mods to be done through Livernois. Would running an aggressive cam exert a concerning amount of strain on the motor mounts?
 

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OP,

Motor mounts of a stock class usually fail because of poor materials and or design. It appears these mounts do NOT have an integral restraint device like you would see in GM motor mounts post 70's. The restraint device keeps the motor from torquing excessively and tearing the rubber part of the mounts. Take a look at the pics on CB750's first links and you will see what I am talking about.



Also, fluid contamination can also lead to failure. BUT, I don't see that on your pics so prolly not a contributing factor. Your passenger side mount was damaged because the driver side mount broke and excessive pressure was being applied to the passenger side mount. The motor mounts are meant to work in tandem. Like the mythical Push Me-Pull you.



Your replacement mounts WILL transfer more engine vibrations to the car's frame. But to what extent who knows. The poly component of your new mounts, while stiffer, may or may not last longer than factory mounts. Just because something is harder, doesn't make it more durable. In fact it maybe more prone to failure because it has LESS flex. Only time will tell. Please keep us updated on how they work out for you.



Also, think of a length of chain. That chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. When it breaks, you have found the weak link. What do you do? Well, you fix it. BUT, you say to yourself, "I'll teach this chain a trick or two." And you replace the broken link with something stronger. Well, what did you do? You just exposed the NEXT weakest link to failure. And so on and so on.



Modding things close to or beyond design specs reveals weak links. So when we mod our cars we have to keep this in mind. Because something else will only give out, sooner or later. B.
 

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Forgive my question because I'm not a motor head, but I am contemplating some mods to be done through Livernois. Would running an aggressive cam exert a concerning amount of strain on the motor mounts?

In short. Most likely. B.
 
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I still have PTSD from replacing the mounts on my front wheel drive daily not long ago and now I need to keep an eye out for the mounts on my SS. I'm cursed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
Here are Three Motor Mount Choices for the SS

The comments in the Pros and Cons sections are my own general comments/opinions simply from reading and reviewing the web, articles...and installing the SuperPro trc2000 motor mounts on my SS.
That said, here's what I found for the SS.

1) Rubber:
SS OEM ACDelco Motor Mount Part# GM (92271062) online $87.49
Houston Dealer Parts Department wanted $138.00 each.:eek They had one in stock.

Pros:
They are OEM motor mounts, good if you like the stock ride, less vibration wise.
Minimal engine vibration transferred from the engine to the cabin, steering wheel, body/frame...Less vibration means smoother feel, better comfort...
Cons:
Not as robust as some aftermarket motor mounts.
Flex more than some aftermarket mounts.
Breaks easier than some aftermarket mounts.
Both of mines broke at about 25k miles P#92271062.


2) Polyurethane/Synthetic Rubber:
SuperPro TRC2000 - Chevrolet SS Polyelast®Engine Mount Set
Manufacturer: SuperPro Part Number: trc2000
Video clip:
https://www.suspension.com/trc2000
Where to buy:
Suspension Parts
Suspension.Parts - We Know Suspensions
BMR Suspension
https://www.BMRsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=1591&superpro=0

Pros:
Supposedly stronger than the SS OEM mounts.
Less flexing than OEM mounts; means “more power to the wheels” so they say.
Fits like SS OEM mounts and uses the same bolts, and heat shields from OEM mounts, confirmed by my install..
SuperPro mounts may have more vibration than stock rubber mounts, but claims less vibration than traditional Polyurethane type mounts. SuperPro say they are made with something called “Polylast” see below for extra information.
Cons:
They may transfer a bit more vibration than OEM mounts because they are made with polyurethane vs. rubber.

Extra information about #2) SuperPro (Polyelast) Motor Mounts
The below claims about SuperPro Motor Mounts are quotes from Suspension Parts - We Know Suspensions

“...One being that sometimes a given application or bushing location limits design options or durometer choices, meaning that to get the performance and durability desired you risk transmitting a more than acceptable amount of road and tire noise or vibration.

These limitations lead to the development of a new material; Polyelast.

Polyelast is a cutting-edge synthetic rubber that offers the performance benefits in structure and service life of our ultra-high quality polyurethane, but the noise and vibration isolation of conventional rubber.

These engine mount significantly reduce engine movement while maintaining and OEM level of noise and isolation. The SS is an incredible machine for performance it packs into a useable and comfortable package; SuperPro's offerings are designed to push the performance limits higher without taking away from the comfort and quiet of the original car... There simply are no drawbacks here.”


3) Billet Aluminum & Urethane, Prothane
Prothane GM Motor Mount Set for Chevy SS Part Number: 311-7-527-BL

JEGS link:
https://www.jegs.com/i/Prothane/311/7-527-BL/10002/-1

Pros:
Limited to minimum flexing upon acceleration, therefore, “transfers more power to the wheels”.
Less likely to break under torque/stress than OEM.
Cons:
Limited to minimum flexing upon acceleration, therefore, transfers more vibration to the cabin.
Made with aluminum and urethane therefore, will transfer more vibration from the engine to the SS body/frame than rubber mounts, and perhaps more than polyurethane mounts.

Here is some extra information about #3) Prothane
Prothane GM Car Motor Mount Set 2014-15 Chevy SS
Part Number: 311-7-527-BL $359.99

Comments from their site.
“Prothane mounts are designed to limit unwanted movement and control torque thereby putting more power to the wheels and also reducing the chance of breakage. You will notice performance gains on the street or track with their almost indestructible mounts. Prothane motor and transmission mounts are strong and tough like a solid metal mount without the vibration and noise...”



Concluding the three choices for the SS:
Again, I went with #2) SuperProTRC2000 - Chevrolet SS Polyelast® Engine Mount Set. If you read carefully, the SuperPro trc2000 mounts fall somewhere between the OEM AC Delco (rubber) mounts and the aftermarket Billet Aluminum (Polyurethane) mounts.

Making sense of why I chose the SuperPro Polylast Motor Mounts:
If I can break the SS OEM AC Delco motor mounts at about 25k miles with a CAI otherwise stock SS, then it’s obvious to me that I need something better than stock. This is why I went with the SuperPro.

Note: The SuperPro mounts claims NOT to be traditional Polyurethane. They claim to be closer to the SS OEM as comfort is concern. They are made of a synthetic rubber they call Polylast. Meaning, the mounts are stronger than SS OEM but do not have the vibrations of conventional polyurethane mounts, so they say. I have not driven my SS yet. I’m posting this prior because, even if the SuperPro mounts do have more vibration than SS OEM mounts, it's not likely that I will go back to the SS OEM stock motor mounts because of the life span.

And as we know, rubber is not based on mileage alone, it’s also base on longevity. Meaning, your SS could be stored for 10 years with only 500 miles on it and the rubber (motor mounts, or tires...) may only have a shelf life of 5 years. In this case, you may have to replace your rubber motor mount or tires based on time, not miles. That said, I got about 25k miles out of my SS OEM motor mounts. Therefore, I’m trying something different with better mileage. In other words, I would rather something like motor mounts fail from being too old... not from 415ft torque at only 25k miles. However, my SS is going on five years old purchase wise, and was built in 2013, so this may be considered normal wear for the AC Delco Motor Mounts (92271062).

The Test Drive Soon to be posted, but may take a few days:
Anyway, after I test drive my SS with the new SuperProtrc2000 mounts, and if I do not like them, I’m either going to do one of two things. One, keep the SuperPromounts because I think they are better than stock mounts, or because I can’t tell any difference from stock (comfort and performance wise) and the difference is minimal. Two, upgrade to a fully polyurethane mount (as in #3 Billet Aluminum & Urethane, Prothane) and deal with the “vibration”.

Pic#1 ACDelco OEM Motor Mount GM Part# 92271062
Pic#2 SuperPro - Chevrolet SS Polyelast®Engine Mount Set Part# TRC2000
Pic#3 Billet Aluminum & Urethane, Prothane for Chevy SS Part# 311-7-527-BL

Hope this helps you narrow down your choice.
 

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Is this really an issue? This is the first post about broken mounts. No? Doesn't seam all that common right? Especially with a whole lot of lead-foots

:grin
 

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I think there are people that do not know they have a broken mount. Typically you can't see that they are broken until the weight is unloaded from them.
As power increases, this speed up the wear.

It is a common issue on other but very similar platforms. There are beefy mounts made for the CTS-V, Camaro SS, g8 etc... Why? Because the stock ones break!
 

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I would venture to guess the colder weather helps the failure.

What state did the OP live in ?????
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Motor Mount Review, (polyurethane) after the Road Test

This Post is a bit wordy, but an easy read. Each paragraph has its own title, that way you can skip over parts.

Things to consider while reading this Post
This polyurethane (poly) motor mount (MMs) review is based on my SS going from broken SS stock MMs to the SuperPro trc2000 Polyurethane MMs, which feels like a 200% improvement. As oppose to going from good SS stock MM to Polyurethane MM, which would probably only feel like a 50% improvement over stock. Bear in mind, my MMs went from broke to new, not good to new, which may skew this review somewhat. Not to mention, different mods may get different results from upgrading MMs to Polyurethane.

Opening comments
My SS stock motor mounts (MMs) may have been broken so long that after installing new ones, any MM would have been an improvement. One way to tell if this is true, is for someone else with good stock SS MMs, upgrade from good stock rubber MMs, (not broken) to poly MMs, and then post a review. Keep in mind; I was riding with two completely broken MM for probably a year, so again, any new MM (rubber or polyurethane) would have been an improvement to my throttle response. Anyway, here are my comments after replacing/upgrading my broken SS stock MMs from rubber to the Polyurethane SuperPro trc2000 MM.

This post is not necessarily written to the forum’s motherheads, I’m implying that they already know what upgrading motor mounts from Rubber to Polyurethane, or Prothane would do for an SS’s throttle response so, I’m talking to the rest of us. However, motorheads, feel free to jump in and give an opinion, because when it comes to hp, torque, superchargers, cams… I try to leave that to those who have done those mods. Therefore, this post will be somewhat opinionated and at the sametime open-ended, because I will try not to pin myself into a corner talking about upgrading MMs on heavily modded engines. My comments/opinions will mostly focus on stock SS engines, but will only speculate about modded engines, e.g., supercharged, cams...

First drive after the SuperPro trc2000 MM install:
Its early morning, 40 degrees outside, the streets are empty.
This was the first time I drove my SS with the new SuperPro Poly MM and was very impressed and in disbelief about the throttle response. Meaning, I could not believe how much an improvement in throttle response, torque feel, and pulling upon acceleration my SS now has that was not there before the upgrade from the stock MMs to the new Poly ones. I drove an extra 15 miles (warming the engine) on my way to work that morning, on backstreets stopping and starting feeling the transmission’s up-shifts, and how firm everything felt as opposed to the SS stock broken MMs.
The next day:
The following day I drove my SS around town for about six hours here and there (running errands) thinking I would soon get use to the new throttle response feel. Well, six hours later I was still thinking wow! Even on the freeway going from 50mph to 70mph (a quick sprint throttle test), the SS still pulls a lot more now than before the MM upgrade.

Gears, Pulling, Torque feel:
There is now a constant pull, wheel torquing feel in all gears. It is most noticeable in the first three gears, even at lower speeds and lower RMS. In addition, while in 4th and 5th gear, I now feel a bit more pulling/responsiveness than before at higher speeds, (50+mph). I now feel the car pushing me into the seat a bit more than before the MM upgrade. The wheels break loose while rolling in 1st and 2nd gear more than before. While in 2nd, I’m now more afraid of my SS than before. Speaking of 2nd gear, you know how the SS defaults to 2nd gear upon stopping, well; I use to tap my shifter into 1st gear because, 2nd gear did not have the response it once had upon taking off; Lacking responsiveness to the point that, I thought I had others problems. Therefore, just before replacing the MMs, I replaced my spark plugs, and wires thinking that those two things were the cause for the sluggish throttle response from 2nd gear. I cannot believe how much torque that was not getting to the wheels with the broken MM, but after further research (about throttle response with broken MMs), it all makes sense.

After the MM replacement/upgrade, my accelerator feels more responsive, less lag between hitting the accelerator and the wheels torquing/moving. The SS is simply more responsive than before. It feels like I added something that gave me about 20 more hp, but I’m sure it’s the improved throttle response that gives that sensation. In other words, my SS don’t have that (broken motor mount), throttle lag anymore, it just goes.

Aggressive Transmission Tune:
I read of some SSs getting the aggressive trans tune to improve their shift points. Well, if you did get an aggressive trans tune and your MMs are lagging, going bad, or weak, there still maybe room for more improvements with your shift points, by upgrading to a stiffer poly MM vs. rubber. How much difference, I’ll leave that question to the experts, or to someone with a trans tune that does a polyurethane MM upgrade.

Rubber MMs Age: Wear vs. Failure
My SS is a 2014, with parts stamped 2013 throughout, which makes my SS going on 6-years old. This may be the reason why my SS stock MMs failed, because of age, and just like tires, rubber MMs have a lifespan too, especially after being exposed (to catalytic converter and engine heat). After reading and researching many reviews on MMs, it seems consistent that you can expect your SS stock MM to break or show signs of wear at about 5-years, simply from age, not to mention run hours (heat from engine idle). As some know, the SS stock MM sits very close to the catalytic converter, with a very thin heat shield only on one side of the MM facing the cats.

Vibration: Rubber vs. Polyurethane vs. Prothane
After installing the SuperPro Poly MMs on my SS, I do not feel any more vibration in the steering wheel, gearshift knob, seats, or anything else any more than I did when my SS and MMs were new in 2014.
I manually shift my automatic trans SS almost 100% ofthe time, thus, my right hand is usually resting on the automatic gearshift knob. That said, when the stock MMs were broken (and not knowing they were broken) I use to feel a slight bump in my automatic gearshift knob as the transmission shifted through the gears, because with the old BROKEN MMs, the engine was lifting up and dropping back down to a rest on the broken MMs. However, after upgrading to the Poly MMs, I can barley feel the shifts with my hand resting on the shift knob. In fact, even my downshifts are a lot more responsive, tighter, and smoother than before. Again, I do not feel any more engine vibration after the new poly MMs than when my SS was new.

Logically speaking about why you may upgrade from Rubber MMs:
Perhaps one of the motorheads on the forum will chime in and add an opinion. Until then, I’ll try to apply logic to a reason(s) to upgrade from rubber to Polyurethane MMs.

If two people are going to push two cars down the street, the person pushing Car1 has bare hands on the trunk lid, while the person pushing Car2 has a rubber balloon between his/her hands and the trunk lid; it’s obvious to most, which car will start to move first. i.e., The balloon on Car2 has to build up pressure first, then the force is exerted from the “rubber balloon” to the trunk lid before Car2 starts to move...
I think it’s safe to say that rubber absorbs energy during torque; therefore, some of the hp/torque from your engine may get absorbed by your soft rubber MM and may not make it to the wheels.

Supercharged:
If my SS had a cam, supercharged, or an aggressive trans tune..., and knowing what I know now, I would have gone with the Prothane MMs to get every bit of HP to the wheels as quick as possible (without any lag). Besides, if/when, I do supercharge, or cam, vibration from the Prothane Billet Aluminum MMs will be the least of my concerns. The dilemma for me will be getting power to the wheels, throttle response vs. a little vibration. I may not be too concerned about smoothness, comfort...


Hypothetical fun Q and As::thumbsUp:
The Q & As are simply hypothetical, from (me) a guy that may have been driving around in his SS with BROKEN MMs for more than a year, and mistakenly thought his SS was getting slower, sluggish,... therefore ,some of the As are from a “broken stock rubber MM upgraded to Polyurethane bias point of view”

Q: If your SS is mostly stock, and you don’t sprint much, or you have baby seats in your SS, you're getting about 40,000 miles on your tires, averaging 20 mpg, and (a conservative driver) then, should you upgrade your MMs to Polyurethane before they need replacing?
A: No, because it seems you may not benefit or use the benefit of a stiffer MM. Moreover, keep in mind; it may be slightly harder to do smoother throttle accelerations from a complete stop with firmer/stiffer motormounts without jerking your passenger’s necks/head back and forth, even with an auto trans. Therefore, you may want to stay with the SS stock rubber MMs. They are softer and absorb more engine vibration (less likely to transfer vibration to the cabin).
On the other hand, it depends on how you want your SS to ride after you drop the kids off. In that case, go with SuperPro polyurethane, not the Prothane.

Q: If your SS is a 2016-17 with low miles, should you upgrade your MMs?
A: You may wait until your SS is 4-5 years old before upgrading the MMs to the SuperPro trc2000, or until the SS stock MMs break or weaken, whichever comes first. However, if you are adding engine mods(supercharge, cam...) to your newish 2016-17, you should at least considerer upgrading the MMs, regardless of newness or mileage.

Q: If your SS’s MMs need replacing from wear..., should you go back with the SS stock part#?
A: No, because the SuperPro trc2000 MMs that I just upgraded to are made with Polyurethane which is stronger and better than the stock rubber, but yet has the same smoothness (no noticeable vibration over the SS stock MMs) and comes with a bit more performance and throttle response upon accelerating, especially from a complete stop. Note: The SuperPro MM comes with a lifetime warranty.

Q: Should someone upgrade his or her otherwise good MM to Polyurethane?
A: Yes, if you are doing other mods and want to reap the results of those mods you are adding, i.e. Why do an aggressive transmission tune with rubber MMs, you could, but why?, it seems to downplay the purpose of the aggressive tune.

Q: Does a Polyurethane or Prothane MM have more vibration than stock?
A: Yes and No. It depends on the grade (material/stiffness) the Polyurethane MM is made of, not all Polyurethane MMs are created equal. Some polyurethane MMs are stiffer than others are; No, the SuperPro trc2000 MMs, feels like stock rubber, by touch and idle vibration, but performs like Polyurethane upon accelerating.

I do not know about the Prothane MMs but read that they may have a bit more vibration than the SS stock rubber MMs, because, the Prothane ones are made with a harder poly-compound, so Yes, perhaps. Although both are referred to as polyurethane, by touch the Prothane feels like a very hard plastic. I know from touching other Prothane materials.

Q: When is the best time to replace or upgraded the SS MMs?
A: When you are doing other engine mods and want every bit of HP as possible going to the wheels.
If you are installing HEADERS, and the manifolds have been taken off, this is a great time to replace the SS MMs because, cats/manifold interference may be the biggest problems you will face when installing new MM on an SS with the engine still in the engine bay.
If your engine is already out of the engine bay, this is the best time to upgrade the MMs, because the MM are right there, easy to get to and easy to torque the top bolts. In fact, I was not able to use my torque wrench on the MM’s top bolts during my install because I could not get a torque wrench on the MM’s top bolts because the manifolds were in the way, especially on the right side. Therefore, I used a smaller 3/8 by hand.
Repeat: If you are going to, or have supercharged, cam, or simply want a more responsive throttle feel. You should consider upgrading from the SS stock MM to at least the SuperPro MMs, but may also consider going with the Prothane MMs. Remember from previous post, I broke the stock MMs with a stock engine at about 25k miles on my2014.

Q: Will upgrading to Polyurethane MMs make the SS faster?
A: “Yes”, because “the power” gets to the wheels faster, with less lag between pressing the accelerator and reaching the wheels. With Poly MMs, less power is absorbed by the MMs, (as would be with rubber); therefore, more is sent to the wheels.

Concluding:
I can’t say enough about the improved throttle response and the Go factor the SuperPro poly MM have over the stock rubber ones. Even with a stock LS3, and after installing the SuperPro MMs, and feeling like I have added about 20hp more to my SS, with no noticeable vibration, I’m now wondering about the Prothane MM. Perhaps someone will do a review on the Prothane MM. I am willing to deal with a little vibration tradeoff for an even better throttle response. Perhaps, once I get over the fact that I just spent $216.00 on the SuperPro MM, I might upgrade to the Prothane MMs.

Okay, there you have it, my subjective opinions/review after driving with BROKEN MM for probably a year or so, than installing SuperPro Poly MMs and feeling a “wow” improvement. I really wanted to start this post out with the word, “WOW!” but am afraid that other SSs would do a Polyurethane or Prothane MM upgrade and not feel the same throttle response. However, it’s still the first word that came to mind the first time I tested the accelerator after the upgrade.

I know, what a long review, but Y'all asked for it.:smile

See Pics, Prothane vs. SS Stock OEM.
01. Prothane Billet Aluminum uses more metal, and harder/stiffer poly compound materials than the SuperPro.
02. SS Stock uses rubber.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
I would venture to guess the colder weather helps the failure.
What state did the OP live in ?????
Although that could be true in some cases, I believe minds broke from engine and Texas heat, and perhaps the age of my SS's motor mounts. My SS is a 2014.
Read Post #37 for more details.

Thank you for taking the time to put this together!
You’re welcome. I know you are going to do the same, a review, once you put the Prothane Billet Aluminum ones on your SS; I know those are the ones you are considering. Keep us posted.:wink

Is this really an issue? This is the first post about broken mounts. No? Doesn't seam all that common right? Especially with a whole lot of lead-foots:grin
Read post #35. At least that was my case. I didn’t know minds were broken, for a while.

Forgive my question because I'm not a motor head, but I am contemplating some mods to be done through Livernois. Would running an aggressive cam exert a concerning amount of strain on the motor mounts?
That's a good question. I too would like to know.
Perhaps someone will contact Livernois and ask if they upgrade motor mounts when doing cams, blowers, or any hp increase.

Sure seems like it would add some "roughness". I'm really curious too.
Read Post #37 for details.
 

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I heard/felt the thump/crack described in the OP while I was driving my newly purchased '15 SS home from the dealership last summer. In my euphoria, I convinced myself that it was an expansion joint. It wasn't. When I brought the car in for its inaugural oil change a few days later, the tech at my local Chevy dealer told me that the engine wasn't bolted down. Apparently, the shop that replaced the steering rack had forgotten to re-attach the nuts that hold the engine in place.

My tech installed the nuts and I went on my way. Now I realize that I should have had the engine mounts inspected...
 
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