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Screw that nihilistic attitude. I'm gonna take the best practices I can to prevent spread in my community and buy more time for life saving treatments to develop and I encourage others to do the same.

Just cause its raining outside doesn't mean you need to get wet.
You do realize that if treated early enough, a dose of Hydroxychloroquine and Zithromax dramatically weaken the effects of the virus right? Strange how most of the people who dispute that are democrats. Boy would I like to infect the naysayers with the virus and see if they take the medicines. My wager says they would. Any takers?
 

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It certainly does prevent the disease. Keep the R value below 1 and eventually it ceases to spread, this is what happened with SARS and MERS, it was contained enough to eventually have no new hosts. Hence the social distancing and mask wearing with COVID. Or just simply look at basically every other first world nation right now and their infection rates compared to ours (or consider NY's now). Because they actually listen to experts. It's a literal embarrassment to me as an American that our spread rate is as bad as Brazil's and India's where Europe and the Far East have this thing contained.

Guys, it's mortality and lingering health effects will be worse than the flu. I will bet you my life savings on that. The flu doesn't leave scarring in the lungs visible on x rays even for those without notable symptoms. The mortality from the flu is almost exclusively from the secondary pneumonia that develops in severe cases or when people don't heed the warnings to rest up and recover. The mortality from COVID is a variety of vascular issues because they are finding it is not a respiratory infection but a vascular one. Influenza doesn't cause strokes, organ failures and cardiac arrest.



I'm 40 with 3 kids and have no desire to die yet nor live the remainder of my life with complications because my fellow Americans were too goddamn stubborn to just use some common sense and instead had to display their self-claimed toughness and patriotism by going to crowded bars without a mask.
My memory sucks but I don't recall having lockdowns and shutting down the economy during SARS and MERS, but I could be wrong....
 

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Heck, I'll be honest. Even I have had concerns about being the first in line for a vaccine, and I got an MMR booster about a month back.

I think when the/a vaccine eventually rolls out, its going to be similar to the early covid tests. Only the elderly, immune compromised, and first responders will get it. Then probably 6-12 months later they will open it up to the unwashed masses.
Annnnnd today's news headline reads (literally):

No guarantee U.S. will have safe, effective COVID-19 vaccine, Fauci says
 

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Annnnnd today's news headline reads (literally):

No guarantee U.S. will have safe, effective COVID-19 vaccine, Fauci says
Correct, there's also no guarantee the flu shot will prevent the flu this year. We always knew that. Its why I have mostly been talking up drug therapies.

That's where I personally hold more hope.
 

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So now I don't understand the mechanics of why the Markets are doing what they're doing. I guess my 35 years of self employment don't count for anything either.
Well honest question, do you understand exactly what monetary policy means, what the expansion of the money supply and the Fed's balance sheet means for the performance of the markets? That has nothing to do with being self employed, or employed at all. If you do understand it, and what has occurred in the past 3 months, you would understand why stocks are barely off their record highs despite a quarter of the population being unemployed and GDP dropping 5% in 1Q and an expected double digit drop in 2Q. Quite simply if people aren't buying stuff, and revenue a majority of companies is plummeting, why do you suppose their stock prices are still high? Figure out the answer to that, and suddenly word salad from a reality show persona doesn't impress you anymore.

You can twist the facts all you want, but Obama/Biden was a disaster every way you look at it. By the end of their run, unemployment was sky high, labor participation was at an all time low, and the bad list goes on and on.
Come on man, at least look up your own data instead of parroting talking points that aren't even correct and accusing me of twisting the facts. I guess this blindness is why people are fooled into thinking Trump has been some kind of amazing success when the facts don't bear it.

Unemployment chart:


Please show me where "by the end of their run, unemployment was sky high". Below 5%, where it was at year end '16 is considered to be "full employment". It was over 10% when his term started. Now, one could say unemployment is sky high right now...

Labor participation:



I sure don't recall you caring about the national debt skyrocketing while I was, and still am, having fits about it. It only matters now cause Trump is in office.
No, it mattered because he ran up the deficit (and thus total debt) as quickly during an economic expansion as was done during the Great Recession. That shouldn't happen. And again, the deficit was at a low point when the last guy left office. This guy tripled it.

And if your retirement plan has been on an upward trajectory consistently since 2009, and not racing higher the last three years, you might want to rethink where you have your money parked.
Annual returns of the S&P since 2009, or what your retirement returns are most likely to mirror:
EDIT: chart wouldn't copy so here: S&P 500 Historical Annual Returns

In 2018 we lost money and we're down -6% YTD today. Worst return under Obama, -0.73, worst return under Trump, -6.24. Best return under Obama, 29.6, best under Trump, 28.88.

Again, the data does not support your claims.
 

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My memory sucks but I don't recall having lockdowns and shutting down the economy during SARS and MERS, but I could be wrong....
No actually my memory is what sucks here since I'm incorrect. SARS/MERS never really made it here (but they did contain it in the far east via isolation). Swine flu H1N1 got here and we did a better job identifying breakouts and containing them back then. However it wasn't as transmissible as COVID to my understanding which helped limit the transmission. COVID is really our first go at a pandemic of this scale.
 

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Well honest question, do you understand exactly what monetary policy means, what the expansion of the money supply and the Fed's balance sheet means for the performance of the markets? That has nothing to do with being self employed, or employed at all. If you do understand it, and what has occurred in the past 3 months, you would understand why stocks are barely off their record highs despite a quarter of the population being unemployed and GDP dropping 5% in 1Q and an expected double digit drop in 2Q. Quite simply if people aren't buying stuff, and revenue a majority of companies is plummeting, why do you suppose their stock prices are still high? Figure out the answer to that, and suddenly word salad from a reality show persona doesn't impress you anymore.



Come on man, at least look up your own data instead of parroting talking points that aren't even correct and accusing me of twisting the facts. I guess this blindness is why people are fooled into thinking Trump has been some kind of amazing success when the facts don't bear it.

Unemployment chart:


Please show me where "by the end of their run, unemployment was sky high". Below 5%, where it was at year end '16 is considered to be "full employment". It was over 10% when his term started. Now, one could say unemployment is sky high right now...

Labor participation:




No, it mattered because he ran up the deficit (and thus total debt) as quickly during an economic expansion as was done during the Great Recession. That shouldn't happen. And again, the deficit was at a low point when the last guy left office. This guy tripled it.



Annual returns of the S&P since 2009, or what your retirement returns are most likely to mirror:
EDIT: chart wouldn't copy so here: S&P 500 Historical Annual Returns

In 2018 we lost money and we're down -6% YTD today. Worst return under Obama, -0.73, worst return under Trump, -6.24. Best return under Obama, 29.6, best under Trump, 28.88.

Again, the data does not support your claims.
Good grief. So the reason the stock markets are up so much is because the Fed keeps printing money, buying bonds and propping them up. What do you think the Feds job is? To protect and help the economy or to let it implode. If you had even a basic understanding of the stock markets you would know that stocks are bought on the speculation of what's going to happen in the future not today. As far as the S&P goes it's down -4.56% including dividends this year not 6%, but so far this year me personally, I'm up 225% in my trading account - thanks be to our Lord. So no, my returns don't mirror the S&P. Yours might, but whatever. It's like I told you earlier, you should change your investment strategy if you're not making good money.

As far as unemployment goes, I meant it was horrible during Obama/Biden, not so much at the end of it. After Obama's first two years when he had both Houses of Congress unemployment and spending were sky high. Then the Republicans got voted in and you see your charts above start to decline. I don't need to do research to support anything I say. I say things based on my personal experience, not tv shows.
 

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Good grief. So the reason the stock markets are up so much is because the Fed keeps printing money, buying bonds and propping them up. What do you think the Feds job is? To protect and help the economy or to let it implode. If you had even a basic understanding of the stock markets you would know that stocks are bought on the speculation of what's going to happen in the future not today.
Yes, stocks are bought on speculation. Historically that speculation is based upon the company's forward looking prospects, either based upon fundamentals or sometimes fanatical aspirations (cough Tesla). However the Fed coming in with almost $3 tril in stimulus in a couple months is changing the game and becoming a buyer of last resort for corporate bonds. That accounts for almost 3/4s of the market cap increase since the COVID bottom in March. The Fed historically has operated under the guidelines of keeping up employment and keeping down inflation, that used to be just controlling interest rates. That started to change in '09 with all the QE and government bond buying. It's changing again now with the corporate bond buying, and the intervention in the overnight repo markets last fall when things first got shaky. These things start to go beyond my scope as an engineer and armchair investor, but damned if it doesn't seem like a potential for an experiment gone wrong.

As far as the S&P goes it's down -4.56% including dividends this year not 6%, but so far this year me personally, I'm up 225% in my trading account - thanks be to our Lord. So no, my returns don't mirror the S&P. Yours might, but whatever. It's like I told you earlier, you should change your investment strategy if you're not making good money.
You're getting more reward by assuming more risk. My risk tolerance particularly in retirement accounts is 80/20 equities to bonds, and I'm content to have an average annual return in the 7-8% range with a strategy of indexing. A majority of traders are not beating the market in the long term, cherry picking data or date ranges aside.

As far as unemployment goes, I meant it was horrible during Obama/Biden, not so much at the end of it. After Obama's first two years when he had both Houses of Congress unemployment and spending were sky high. Then the Republicans got voted in and you see your charts above start to decline. I don't need to do research to support anything I say. I say things based on my personal experience, not tv shows.
Well, yeah it was horrible at the start, we were in the middle of the worst economic downturn since the Depression. That was going to be a given. Also recall how Obama was labeled as spending like a drunken sailor (which you just parroted) because he got $787B in stimulus via ARRA passed in '09. We now have $2T in the Cares act (with more stimulus planned) and I don't see anyone on the right calling Trump a spendthrift.

Also Republicans did not gain control of the Senate until the '14 midterms, by their 2015 start date the unemployment rate had already declined from 10% to below 6% so again that's a false narrative.

I say things based upon data, not personal anecdotes.
 

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You're right. My mistake. I was looking at worldwide numbers and not U.S. only. I'm doing too many things at once.
No problem, easy mistake.

I'm gonna bow out of the finance discussion. Not something I have a good grasp of personally.
Anyways, truly glad to hear your business seem to be hanging in there.
 

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Just donated a unit of blood. Thought was O+ but vampires said I'm A+. For those thinking about this make sure blood pressure is not high, hemoglobin (iron) is above 13.0, no vaccines within last 8-weeks, just took 81mg low dose of aspirin in last 48-hours but they ask what meds you're on as well as other common questions which might make your blood undesirable. Got a chuckle about prostitute question but only spend my spare change on guns and ammo. Should get results in 2-weeks about anti-bodies.
Can donate again 25 August 2020...but might be back in GA under wife's scrutiny.

IMG_20200630_1602059_rewind.jpg
 

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Things like green tea and turmeric are blood thinners as well. Always tell them about any supplements or dietary aids. I found out about that stuff the hard way.
 

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So a guy making less money and having to borrow to pay taxes goes out to dinner so much that he's saving a lot of money now? Hmm...
Soooo,...that's how how operate, huh? And you talk about CNN with fake news and misquotes, and taking statements out of context, huh?...So. I can't get take out for my wife for diner 'cause I'm in tax dept? For your information, my wife has the Big C, and can't cook anymore and my cooking is coming along rather slow, since I really don't cook. OPOh, but next month I may have enough, 'cause I'm making the final payment on my SS...'couldn't pay cash for it, ya'know. Next, you'll say that I shouldn't have an SS 'cause I had to borrow the money to by one.

Sheesh!
 

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You said you've made less money under Trump and had to borrow to pay taxes. How on earth are you staying home and saving money? Curious....
As mentioned, saving gas, I only go out once a week, no car washes, eating at home costs less, no entertainment, movies and such, less laundry and cleaners, stuff like that there.
 
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