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Yep, just do your best to buy time until a Vaccine is ready....Then, people will refuse that too!
Heck, I'll be honest. Even I have had concerns about being the first in line for a vaccine, and I got an MMR booster about a month back.

I think when the/a vaccine eventually rolls out, its going to be similar to the early covid tests. Only the elderly, immune compromised, and first responders will get it. Then probably 6-12 months later they will open it up to the unwashed masses.
 

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Heck, I'll be honest. Even I have had concerns about being the first in line for a vaccine, and I got an MMR booster about a month back.

I think when the/a vaccine eventually rolls out, its going to be similar to the early covid tests. Only the elderly, immune compromised, and first responders will get it. Then probably 6-12 months later they will open it up to the unwashed masses.
So does that mean you think we should all SIP until everyone is vaccinated? Just curious.
 

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So does that mean you think we should all SIP until everyone is vaccinated? Just curious.
I wouldn't say that. Obviously we can't do that. I think lots of things can open as long as the 6' and masks and clean exchanges take place.

But movie theaters, concerts, bars, and other mass clusters...those are gonna be risky. We need to learn to live with this to some degree, but its a new normal, and not going back to the old way until we can treat this better.

Figuring out the right way and the right timing to open schools so that the risk is minimized and the R value is controlled is probably the most critical one to get right.

Again, common sense mitigation stuff. Full lockdown SIP at this point isn't the answer, neither is ditching the mask and distancing all together. It takes a nuanced approach.
 

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Thanks to a minority group here in Vic au we are going backwards with restrictions being reintroduced.

This minority group have been having large weddings, funerals & ramanan festivity’s with no regard for caution or consequence, now the whole state is paying for it.

I had planed on visiting my g/son for his 13th today 270km from home.
NSW gov are telling their citizens not to welcome anyone from Melbourne.

A special thanks to our sock puppet premier for doing nothing to stop them.
 

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So does that mean you think we should all SIP until everyone is vaccinated? Just curious.
No. But I think SIP is probably what you're going to need for 2-3 weeks for these states that are curving drastically upwards right now, to get things back under control. Then do what NY did and have a staged reopening that tracks metrics, assuming the population will actual listen to guidance and make immense personals sacrifices such as, you know, wearing a mask. The places that rushed to open with no logical plans are now the ones being overrun with cases.
 

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Wow, there you go again! Your presumption is utterly mind boggling. bangheadonwall
Literally a guy like 10 posts ago basically said we're all going to catch it some will die, oh well.
 

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Fun! We've got a new H1N1 swine flu that has already moved from pigs to humans in China, and is also human-to-human transmissable. Currently classified as no imminent threat, just like COVID was...
 

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Fun! We've got a new H1N1 swine flu that has already moved from pigs to humans in China, and is also human-to-human transmissable. Currently classified as no imminent threat, just like COVID was...
Hah, yeah I saw that yesterday. You'd think the Chinese would've learned the first time about messing with cave bats/having live animals for sale at wet markets (depending on which story the state run media prefers).
 

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I'm not sure why Trump gets all the praise on the economy, and people such as yourself claiming you made more in under Trump than Obama? If you look at the trends of basically any economic indicator, they've all been on a steady trajectory upwards since 2009. Stock market, unemployment, GDP. It's not like we were living in a depression under the last guy for 8 years. I can give you my annual ROR's for my retirement accounts, they've been consistent.

Here's manufacturing jobs, again a consistent trend since '09 if anything stagnant from about mid '18 to pre COVID. All Employees, Manufacturing

You also may want to look at what he's done from both a fiscal and monetary policy aspect to keep his numbers looking good. That tax bill of his that gave large cuts to high earners and corporations, small cuts to most people (and cost me more in taxes) drove the deficit from $400B to $1.2T pre COVID.

Now go look at what the Fed has done, with Trump constantly yammering at Powell to keep interest rates low and artificially juice the markets while we were still in expansion. And if you are wondering why the markets had a quick dip and then recovered back to their pre COVID levels, it's not something Trump did. It's the $2.9 trillion in liquidity the fed has printed and pumped into the markets in 2 MONTHS. That's DOUBLE what they did in 2 YEARS from '09 to '11 coming out of the Great Recession. Back when all the fiscal conservatives screamed that Obama and Bernanke were going to devalue the dollar, send inflation skyrocketing and plunge us into a depression. Now while Trump is running yuge-er deficits and printing more money, they are strangely silent.

You or I could sit in the oval office and run up debts, print money to fluff the markets and look like we're the best people too. But if you actually understand the mechanics of why the markets are doing what they're doing right now and what's driving them, you realize it's not because of a guy standing on stage and constantly taking credit for it.

Now if COVID continues to blow up in the rest of the country and shut things down either by choice or by end result, because we're told to ignore authority and that masks are a sign of oppression and weakness, how much more money do you think the Fed can just keep printing to bail out the big boys on Wall Street before the rest of the world decides this is unsustainable and tosses the dollar as reserve currency? It's not going to be pretty.
So now I don't understand the mechanics of why the Markets are doing what they're doing. I guess my 35 years of self employment don't count for anything either. You can twist the facts all you want, but Obama/Biden was a disaster every way you look at it. By the end of their run, unemployment was sky high, labor participation was at an all time low, and the bad list goes on and on. I sure don't recall you caring about the national debt skyrocketing while I was, and still am, having fits about it. It only matters now cause Trump is in office. And it certainly isn't his fault that the virus hit and and forced the entire Country to shut down and force the Democrats to do what they do best-spend money they don't have. Maybe now people will learn to keep at least a years worth of living expenses on hand for emergencies so the government doesn't have to bail them out. $1,200.00 check for everyone. What the heck good was that anyway? And if your retirement plan has been on an upward trajectory consistently since 2009, and not racing higher the last three years, you might want to rethink where you have your money parked.
 

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I wonder why they assume that opening bars caused the spike and not say the massive (60,000 people) protests or nail salons?

The stats don't warrant any more shutdown in my opinion. We are all destined to get infected, there is no escape until there is a vaccine.

Currently COVID-19 patients are taking up 20% of the ICU beds in Houston.

And the death rate per 100,000 people is as follows:

New Jersey - 167
New York - 161
Florida - 15
Texas - 8

In other words, the death rate (per 100k people) is more than 20 times greater in New York/Jersey than in Texas.

That's the part the fake news doesn't report. The Left wants the country shut down to hurt Trump.
 

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Well, Smirnoff, you're probably a swell guy and all, and most certainly must be rich(by my standards), with 4 or 5 stores you say that you have, especially when you make this statement,"I've made more money in the last three years under Trump than in the last eight under Obama and Biden. And anyone who denies that is either an inept, absolute blithering idiot, or a liar." Well, I haven't. I used to make 6 figures before 2017, and what's more, after Trump changed the taxes(decrease for you, increase for me), last year was the first time that I had to take out a loan to pay my taxes. For this year, I made so much less, I was able to pay them, this time...we used to get refunds every year.
Now, what I did benefit from, under Obama/Biden was from Obamacare. It saved me and the wife. Maybe, 'cause of my age group or what, but I thought it was great.
So, your statement aligns with my belief that Trump takes care of those important to him, his rich buddies, and to the rest-a-y'all, sit down and shut up.
Well sir, first off, I'm not a swell guy by any stretch of the imagination. Secondly, wealthy-yes; megarich-no. You said you used to make six figures but not any more and had to borrow money to pay your taxes. Being that you didn't offer any other info, all I can say is that if you have to borrow money to pay taxes, you are living beyond your means. So unless you had extraordinary circumstances we don't know about, I'd recommend making some changes; or I'll tell you what I tell people who owe me money and make every excuse in the book about not paying....work harder. Rather than sit around and bemoan your station in life, make a change, change jobs, change your investments, take another job, in other words - do what you have to do to survive.
I'll say it again. I'm uneducated, grew up in Detroit with no more chances for a good life than anyone else and certainly nobody ever gave me anything. So if I can make it, anyone can. That's why I get so angry about all the protests/riots. They all suffer from the poor me syndrome and rather than doing it the old fashioned way by working hard, these young punks want everything handed to them. Since no one does, they say fine, we'll just take it instead. And I'll be [email protected] if I'm going to give up one cent to these lowlifes. Take from the wealthy and give the poor done-hard-to people. Give me a break. Sympathy train left the station a long time ago.

I have over 700 contacts in my phone, and have come across countless numbers of people in my day to day life for decades, and you're the first one to say things have been tough financially under Trump. My guess is something dramatic in your life happened that you aren't saying, and that's why you aren't making as much money. Whatever the case, take a page from my book and do what you have to do to survive. It's like everything else in life, whomever is willing to do what the other guy isn't, is the one who wins every time.
 

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Annnnnd . . . what if that never comes? How long do we continue to cripple our country before we say enough already? Do they have that answer? Do you? Who really knows how much is too much?
They act like it's the Bubonic Plague rather than a treatable infection. Believe me, if the assets of all the politicians were frozen, and their private security was taken away, I guarantee you there wouldn't be any lock downs at all. The worst thing about people is that they can't get it through their heads that what affects us, NEVER affects the politicians. Bring them down to our level and watch how fast things go back to normal.
 

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Case in point: I heard on the radio yesterday that US mortality reports account for more than 1/4 of all global mortality. How is that even possible unless we are either over reporting or virtually the ENTIRE rest of the world is under-reporting? Remember, the virus knows no boundaries, we have taken SIP measures, and we have some of the best health care on earth, so how do we end up so disproportionately represented? Doesn't pass the smell test to me.
The reason so many deaths are attributed to Coronavirus is because the hospitals get money for every death reported. So if a diabetes patient suffering kidney failure also happens to have the virus and dies-cause of death = Coronavirus. Stage 4 cancer patient with the virus dies-cause of death = Coronavirus. Only the mainstream media doesn't report that part. It's that simple. Always follow the money.
 

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The people demanding we keep the shutdown going don't have a small business and could care less about the lives of people who do! These people are going broke and loosing everything!! Some are even taking their own lives! How dare you!!!!

SEE?, the you must not care about humanity you selfish a$$! works both ways.
Dude the only people who champion lockdown are the ones who are financially secure and don't need the economy to be fully open. Most likely people who come from wealthy families that would otherwise be on a street corner with a cup in their hand without them. Puke.
 

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One must, first, keep living to reap those benefits, and , second, take steps to keep his potential customers living to patronize him.
I've been staying home. I've saved a lot of money that I normally would have spent. If I get sick and die, those businesses have lost a good customer. So, multiply me by the thousands more who are dying now. They will lose out anyway.
You said you've made less money under Trump and had to borrow to pay taxes. How on earth are you staying home and saving money? Curious....
 

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Look we all care for the businesses that are losing work right now.

I do think there are a lot of good preventive measures that are being taken and adaptation as well to make it work.

But there are some that just can't. Bars, conventions, and many others are just really tough to get right.

Unfortunately we didn't get it right at the beginning. We should have had less "essential businesses", and all wore masks. I think we really could have knocked this thing back in 3 weeks and performed better contact tracing like in South Korea. Now we are limping along and bleeding out.

We went out last night to an outdoor dining spot (and local business that needs the support) and spoke to the waitress about the customers, she said that because so many other counties around us closed bars and are in worse shape that people from all over are coming out here because more things are open. She said they "want a vacation from the pandemic" and don't wear masks or respect the health guidelines. The locals are doing their part, now we really need to watch out because the tourists often seem aloof or entitled or misinformed. My point in this story is that because the country didn't get on the same page at the same time to take it seriously we are worse off. Its like we are taking half the medicine dosage and expecting the same results, or half cleaning the wound, or half treating the infection. Lack of discipline is keeping things closed I'm afraid.
It's not lack of discipline keeping things closed, it's the politicians who want to be rid of Trump. Once again, it's not the Plague we're dealing with here, it's a glorified flu bug. Those in power who demand lockdowns are the same ones who didn't say boo about the protests - if in fact they didn't walk with them. So don't cry about opening businesses now. It's almost as bad as the Hollywood morons raising bail money for thugs, but not one cent for all the small businesses that were looted and burned. They don't count I guess.

Yesterday I saw a couple on the news who live in a private, gated community outside St. Louis. Protesters broke down the iron gate and stormed into the neighborhood. Then a couple who live there had their lives and property threatened so after getting no help from 911, they grabbed weapons to defend themselves and their property. What does the District Attorney do? Arrest and charge the protesters with trespassing and for making threats? Nope, she wants to bring charges against the homeowners for exercising their 2nd ammendment right to protect themselves and their property. Yeah, defund the police. Just like in Minneapolis where the city commissioners have shut the police department down and now have private security instead costing the taxpayers $4,500.00 per day. Haven't found out yet if it's that much per person or for three of those losers. Once again, what affects us peons, doesn't affect those in power. Someone please explain to me why the Democrats can't figure this out and keep voting for these scumbags. Makes me want to vomit.
 

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If this washes over the whole country now (328 Million) and .4% of people die according to that statistic then that that means we would be looking at 1,312,000 deaths. Which year of aggressive flu seasons are we comparing this too?

It seems to me like if 20% of the general population get this, the mortality rate would still be double a bad flu year.
And 1.35 million people die in car accidents every year. What's your point?
 
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