[SSS]

Now theres rumbles that the next gen commodore could use something from Cadillac....

Suprise suprise the article references ATS/CTS... ALPHA (is that 4 times banned now?)

Report Suggests Future Prospect of RWD Cadillac-Underpinned Holdens and Chevys - Carscoops

do you guys think its possible that the strategy flip flops for the next gen? Where the commodore is produced alongside SS, but in America...

 

[Boosted]

Any Holden that is produced outside of AUS will not be relevant to my interests. I'd still rather them kill it off completely than move production to US.

 

[chevypwr]

TBH I won't mind Holden production the U.S.
Maybe I just don't see it as some of you do.
Boosted, why would production in the U.S. be irrelevant to your interests?

 

[willy92]

Any Holden that is produced outside of AUS will not be relevant to my interests. I'd still rather them kill it off completely than move production to US.

Some don't like America Cars.

Judging from some of the other cars you guys own and or have traded in(G8s don't count), I would say that was the concern.

 

[monaroCountry]

Holden engineers know of the Alpha and they rejected it. The Alpha is good but nowhere near good enough for the price to build. The current Zeta platform is older, bigger, and pretty much performs as well as the Alpha, most importantly the Zeta is much cheaper and uses less exotic materials (better design trumps fancy materials once again).

The costs of an Alpha based commodore would put it closer to BMW and Mercedes price range. Since theres no longer any brand loyalty and brand good will for Holden/GM in Australia. I can pretty much guarantee that most if not all buyers would rather a BMW or Mercedes.

More likely is that the next Commodore will come out of an existing FWD car or a car made/designed in China. The fall from grace for Holden/GM will be dramatic. The Commodore has been the only car in GM's lineup to give the Camry two black eyes, broken ribs, broken nose, and a bruised kidney. All through the 90's and well into 00's the Commodore has been the highest selling car in the most competitive Automotive market in the world (15 years straight in-fact). Holden for many year was the only proft making company in GM, apart from the finance arm and GMC. Holden was also the first to make GM's Global RWD platform and basically the expert in RWD (even winning against AMG's and BMW M's in their own turf).

 

[monaroCountry]

Some don't like America Cars.

Judging from some of the other cars you guys own and or have traded in(G8s don't count), I would say that was the concern.

Imagine GM closing down, being bought out by Hyundai and making a Corvette from the Hyundai Veloster platform. Hyundai then selling it back to America as a true American supercar.

 

[monaroCountry]

As for an Alpha Commodore, weve already seen something like it. Wayyyyyy back in 2004 with this Alpha based Holden Torana concept.

Have fun trying to dig up any working examples of an Alpha based Cadillac prior to this 2004 Holden Torana TTV6 3.6L

Also (from what ive heard) Pontiac was also supposed to get this Alpha chassis. Holden was only meant to develop it and hand over the production to an American arm and have it imported back to Australia as a Holden (like the Camaro). Holden was only meant to produce the large RWD platform.

 

[z51vett]

Now theres rumbles that the next gen commodore could use something from Cadillac....

Suprise suprise the article references ATS/CTS... ALPHA (is that 4 times banned now?)

Report Suggests Future Prospect of RWD Cadillac-Underpinned Holdens and Chevys - Carscoops

do you guys think its possible that the strategy flip flops for the next gen? Where the commodore is produced alongside SS, but in America...

I've said this all along when they bring the SS state side it will be a stretched version of the ATS platform aka CTS and 2015 Camaro, in same plant.
z51vett
Doug

 

[Slizzo]

Holden engineers know of the Alpha and they rejected it. The Alpha is good but nowhere near good enough for the price to build. The current Zeta platform is older, bigger, and pretty much performs as well as the Alpha, most importantly the Zeta is much cheaper and uses less exotic materials (better design trumps fancy materials once again).

The costs of an Alpha based commodore would put it closer to BMW and Mercedes price range. Since theres no longer any brand loyalty and brand good will for Holden/GM in Australia. I can pretty much guarantee that most if not all buyers would rather a BMW or Mercedes.

More likely is that the next Commodore will come out of an existing FWD car or a car made/designed in China. The fall from grace for Holden/GM will be dramatic. The Commodore has been the only car in GM's lineup to give the Camry two black eyes, broken ribs, broken nose, and a bruised kidney. All through the 90's and well into 00's the Commodore has been the highest selling car in the most competitive Automotive market in the world (15 years straight in-fact). Holden for many year was the only proft making company in GM, apart from the finance arm and GMC. Holden was also the first to make GM's Global RWD platform and basically the expert in RWD (even winning against AMG's and BMW M's in their own turf).

Not sure that's going to be quite true. The next gen Camaro will be built on the Alpha platform, and I'll be surprised if that's north of $30,000 (for the small motor Camaro that is).

 

[skeener]

ALPHA (is that 4 times banned now?)

:yahoo:

 

[alcatraz]

Holden's production is going to be sent somewhere. Holden isn't shutting down completely. They still have administration and R&D in Australia if I am not mistaken. It wherever they move production the SS will likely follow.

 

[monaroCountry]

R&D wont be in Australia, pretty much all engineering staff bar a handful will be gone. Australia will however continue to have the design jobs (I take this as the aesthetics only).

Holden will become a wholly import only. Many engineers have been jumping ship to other manufacturers or to outside automotive, even Holden/HSV's chif engineer Joel Stoddart has gone to making caravans with Jayco.

 

[Navy Lifer]

Holden's production is going to be sent somewhere. Holden isn't shutting down completely. It wherever they move production the SS will likely follow.

Does anyone really think that GM would try to build SS in China and expect either NA or Oz to buy it? That would be a stake through the heart....it's really unfortunate that high-cost Australian labor has so greatly contributed to the demise of Holden, and if "we" stand by and do nothing here in the GMNA market, the same thing could eventually come about.

 

[SSS]

I think the only thing keeping US manufacturing competitive is the USD status as world reserve.

 

[z51vett]

I think the only thing keeping US manufacturing competitive is the USD status as world reserve.

What do you propose lowering wages to minimum rate. The true cost of a car is development not labor as everyone thinks had a class on this wish I could find my notes to share. Some new cars cost millions to develop not counting the stampings or dyes to make parts and so forth. Plus setting up new machinery to build cars. Corvette plant spent 130 million on plant alone to make the c7 corvette.
z51vett
Doug

 

[2074]

What do you propose lowering wages to minimum rate. The true cost of a car is development not labor as everyone thinks had a class on this wish I could find my notes to share. Some new cars cost millions to develop not counting the stampings or dyes to make parts and so forth. Plus setting up new machinery to build cars. Corvette plant spent 130 million on plant alone to make the c7 corvette.
z51vett
Doug

If my aging mind remembers correctly the actual manufacturing labor cost (total including parts and subassemblies as well as running down the line) for the average new vehicle today is less than 10% of MSRP.

 

[Cajun SS]

Ok, let's suppose for a moment that Commodore will move to a FWD platform as has been reported. Isn't it possible that Holden could resurrect the Torana concept on the Alpha platform as was originally envisioned? Obviously, if Camaro is going to be built on Alpha, it's not all going to be fancy and expensive components.

New Torana could be an ATS with new body/interior, less exotic materials in the chassis, but still give Australia a proper rear-drive car. Would that be something the Aussies would want and accept? Send you a RWD car, just don't call it Commodore?

 

[skeener]

If my aging mind remembers correctly the actual manufacturing labor cost (total including parts and subassemblies as well as running down the line) for the average new vehicle today is less than 10% of MSRP.

Which is still a big number to Corporate Bean Counters (GM's Achilles heel). Those guys drive some radical moves for what normal people would think is a relatively trivial amount.

I think they are afforded this luxury because of an artificial condition. They don't capture all the costs associated w/ the move, only the lower piece price. The rest of the costs come out of some other bucket.

Nice gig, being rewarded for near-sightedness.

Top Management needs to intercede, but seldom does. The Bean Counters cry "Federal Tax Law" as justification for running the business per those metrics, even though the Feds never intended it that way.

 

[jat63]

Toyota is currently pushing for a reduced wages and conditions agreement for the workforce, no prize for guessing the unions are fighting against it.
Also we don't have employer funded health care,

 

[SSS]

What do you propose lowering wages to minimum rate. The true cost of a car is development not labor as everyone thinks had a class on this wish I could find my notes to share. Some new cars cost millions to develop not counting the stampings or dyes to make parts and so forth. Plus setting up new machinery to build cars. Corvette plant spent 130 million on plant alone to make the c7 corvette.
z51vett
Doug

I was making an observation about labor in response to navy lifer. I made no mention of R&D. Its still the USD reserve status that makes that 130 mil worthwhile in the US. If there was not global demand for USD's that 130 mil would easily be double or more because of the blatant printing inflating the monetary base.

Not to mention that American engineers would be priced out of the market. Although if the USD does lose reserve status GM engineering is the least of our worries.