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Brake dust buildup

One thing I notice even with the REVISED tsb to use = the squeal will return if the pads / rotors are dirty, neglected or have not been thoroughly cleaned for a while. My '15 lets me know when it's time to clean... on way home from work yesterday there was squealing - cleaned and rinsed all 4 wheels before dinner and BAM: no more squeal at all.


:wink
 

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Had new OEM pads put on front brakes today. They squeal.
TSB fix worked for a long time until pads got low. Surprised dealer didn't do the brake pad fix with the new pads.
 

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Had new OEM pads put on front brakes today. They squeal.
TSB fix worked for a long time until pads got low. Surprised dealer didn't do the brake pad fix with the new pads.
Did they turn or better still,,, replace the rotors???? I generally never cut rotors, I just acknowledge that they are a consumable and replace em. In my long experience,, machining them usually results in acheiving about 50 to 60% of the mileage you get on new lining unless the steel starts at the correct factory thickness.

Just my $0.02!!

Moving right along now!!!

:devil
 

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Discussion Starter · #804 ·
Had new OEM pads put on front brakes today. They squeal.
TSB fix worked for a long time until pads got low. Surprised dealer didn't do the brake pad fix with the new pads.
The fronts were NEVER an issue and really did not need to be re-copperpasted as they were done correctly from the factory. ... all years.

They did not clean and copper paste them right.

New rotors are a must with HP1000 pads if you don't want to go below minimum thickness before the replacements wear out.
 

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The fronts were NEVER an issue and really did not need to be re-copperpasted as they were done correctly from the factory. ... all years.

They did not clean and copper paste them right.

New rotors are a must with HP1000 pads if you don't want to go below minimum thickness before the replacements wear out.
Okay, I confuse easily. Shoulda stayed in school.
Who didn't clean and paste them right? The factory or my dealer?
So it would be best to replace rotors now so I don't have to replace them later? The benefit isn't clear.
Help me out here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #806 ·
Okay, I confuse easily. Shoulda stayed in school.
Who didn't clean and paste them right? The factory or my dealer?
So it would be best to replace rotors now so I don't have to replace them later? The benefit isn't clear.
Help me out here.
1- dealer.

2- don't double pay labor. Let 'em be. You know the mileage when you needed brakes; when you get to 75% of it on the new pads watch the wear sensor and replace them before you get to 2mm before it hits the rotor.

As practiced all my life; I replace pads when they are worn down to 25% useful lining remaining. The thinner the linings the hotter they get and therefore the faster they wear.
 
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So it would be best to replace rotors now so I don't have to replace them later?
Fair and interesting question....

2- don't double pay labor. Let 'em be. You know the mileage when you needed brakes; when you get to 75% of it on the new pads watch the wear sensor and replace them before you get to 2mm before it hits the rotor.

The thinner the linings the hotter they get and therefore the faster they wear.
This doesn't seem to directly respond to the "replace rotors?" aspect of the first quote, so here's my take.

In addition, the thinner the rotor, the hotter THEY get and therefore further exacerbating the wear rate and lowered thermal capacity of the rotors and temps at the pad interface, potentially reducing braking effectiveness in an unexpectedly significant way.

Since information is lacking from post in first quote, it would depend on the miles and rotor condition at the time of brake service.


  1. just doing a "pad slap" is not a good approach to servicing high-performance brakes - in addition, when or IF a pad other than original spec is used, the rotor needs to be de-glazed, at a minimum, to remove the transfer film of the previous pads, and there are several ways to do this, but ideally it is done with either an on-car lathe, or rotors are removed, to a brake lathe, with sanding discs for this purpose, or by use of a Flexhone. Cleaning friction surfaces of any residual material (old pad material or metal from a lathe cut) is also mandatory, so the new pads have fresh rotor surfaces to bed in with.

  2. not sure whether on-car lathe service to rotors can be performed with caliper still in place

  3. rotor wear - from new spec thickness to discard thickness % needs to be evaluated - what is wear rate based on miles and driving/braking "style" of an individual, ie. do (you) drive easy, or aggressively?

  4. Disc Thickness Variation (DTV) needs to be evaluated

  5. determine whether there is rotor runout that is beyond recommended limits (per SI)

  6. any DTV combined with overall rotor wear needs to be calculated with a cost vs benefit approach to either refinishing or replacing the in-service rotors--in other words, what life is left (% wear) AFTER (paying labor) to refinish vs cost of a pair of NEW rotors?

  7. depending on where vehicle has operated, removal of rotors to inspect the BACK side of the rotor hub and wheel bearing flange for corrosion may be warranted - this, of course, mandates removal of calipers

My take - it may seem wasteful, and CAN induce other problems if not done properly, but as a high-performance system, it is worth considering replacing pads & rotors together. Most important is the foundation--when the old rotor is removed, the hub flange MUST be cleaned, de-rusted, and runout of the new rotor on the flange has to be checked to be within specs per SI. If rotors are being re-used, the flange mating surface must also be cleaned, de-rusted, and runout spec checked.

Bottom line - "double pay labor" is the key here--not being altogether wise to the ways of the labor rate guidance followed in the industry, it would seem to me to be better, from a labor cost standpoint, to go ahead and replace the rotors if the calipers end up being removed to service the rotors to make them ready for new pads.

For me, it comes down to whether it really does mean that "Brembo" represents a level of braking performance that is above others (not just 60-0 stopping distance)--if it actually does, the system components need to be in optimal condition to deliver on that expectation.
 

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Did they turn or better still,,, replace the rotors???? I generally never cut rotors, I just acknowledge that they are a consumable and replace em. In my long experience,, machining them usually results in acheiving about 50 to 60% of the mileage you get on new lining unless the steel starts at the correct factory thickness.
  1. just doing a "pad slap" is not a good approach to servicing high-performance brakes - in addition, when or IF a pad other than original spec is used, the rotor needs to be de-glazed, at a minimum, to remove the transfer film of the previous pads, and there are several ways to do this, but ideally it is done with either an on-car lathe, or rotors are removed, to a brake lathe, with sanding discs for this purpose, or by use of a Flexhone. Cleaning friction surfaces of any residual material (old pad material or metal from a lathe cut) is also mandatory, so the new pads have fresh rotor surfaces to bed in with.


  1. Spoke to service writer today, he says they did remove rotors and deglaze/turn them, it's SOP for these cars.
    He suggested that I get a few miles on the new pads to see if they still squeal.

    Writer used to own an SS and was a member here for a while. Seems to be a real straight shooter. Couple of other forum members swear by this dealership.
    He's taking his ZL1 to the strip tonight, I may see him there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #809 ·
Spoke to service writer today, he says they did remove rotors and deglaze/turn them, it's SOP for these cars.
He suggested that I get a few miles on the new pads to see if they still squeal.

Writer used to own an SS and was a member here for a while. Seems to be a real straight shooter. Couple of other forum members swear by this dealership.
He's taking his ZL1 to the strip tonight, I may see him there.
Plan on:

1- possibly faster lining wear out.

2- You WILL need new rotors next pad replacement.

I always replace rotors; NEVER cut. Too many variables when cutting to cause problems as well as thinner rotors reducing pad life/decreased multiple stop distances due to increased heat.

Ask the shop when they last changed the bits on the lathe .... or when they last cleaned the lathe hubs ... and if they clean you rotor mounting surfaces before slapping it on the lathe ... :wink
 

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Took my 2016MY in for the copper paste TSB this past weekend. After dealing with constant and very noticeable squeal for the past 6 months, I had it. Every passenger that got in my car always commented on my brakes, and people would turn their heads at every stop light because of how bad it was. I'm not usually "that guy," but I was adamant the tech follow the TSB EXACTLY and take no shortcuts. So far, so good. The squeal was so bad at times I half-heartedly told my wife I was going to get rid of the car because of it.
 

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Took my 2016MY in for the copper paste TSB this past weekend. After dealing with constant and very noticeable squeal for the past 6 months, I had it. Every passenger that got in my car always commented on my brakes, and people would turn their heads at every stop light because of how bad it was. I'm not usually "that guy," but I was adamant the tech follow the TSB EXACTLY and take no shortcuts. So far, so good. The squeal was so bad at times I half-heartedly told my wife I was going to get rid of the car because of it.
Did they do the insulators too? That's really what makes the difference for the 'fix' to last a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #812 ·
Did they do the insulators too? That's really what makes the difference for the 'fix' to last a long time.

Well he did say they were instructed to follow the TSB exactly .... and the new design shims are part of the TSB.
 
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Well he did say they were instructed to follow the TSB exactly .... and the new design shims are part of the TSB.
Yep sure did, but they might have been using an older version. How else would it still be still squealing if they followed the correct version?
 

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Yep sure did, but they might have been using an older version. How else would it still be still squealing if they followed the correct version?
The squeal always comes back eventually
 

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The squeal always comes back eventually
There is always squeal, but I haven't heard the horrendous shriek for nearly 25k miles. The insulators seem to work pretty well.
 
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Is this only for the 2015 model or for the 2017 as well? My brakes are loud as hell
 

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Is this only for the 2015 model or for the 2017 as well? My brakes are loud as hell
Updated OEM pads eventually made it into production with a shim redesign. The TSB was eventually integrated into the GM SI (Service Information) system. At any given point in time, there was either an applicable bulletin, updated parts, or the problem was "fixed" in production in later years.

Once the Service Info contained the guidance that had been carried in various iterations of a TSB, the expectation was that when an issue arose, it would just be a routine service matter, assuming a dealer or other tech was aware of the procedures to be followed, and assuming use of the OEM parts.

Current pad developed specifically for SS Sedan More Information for GM GENUINE 92277173

Beyond that, GM sees the matter as closed - changing to an aftermarket pad zeroes out any responsibility for GM, Brembo, or dealers.
 
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