[SSS]

Ok so whats different between the SS and the GXP?

First things first the GXP (G8) was based on the earlier VE Commodore, while SS rolls in based on VF. Granted the changes between VE and VF are evolutionary it is nonetheless another layer between the SS and GXP. Since we last saw the GXP GM has reworked the original Zeta architecture into Zeta 2. To do this they stripped Zeta down to its essentials and decided to start over again.

Says Steve Manson, engineering manager for the project:

“We looked at every sheetmetal panel, and changed quite a number of them from medium to high-grade steels in order to improve stiffness or chase mass, the team restructured the front rails of the car in order to improve crash performance and gave the 'body in white' a pretty extreme makeover.

all that totaled about 30 lbs of weight loss from the core architecture.

More from Manson:

“We then started building it back up again,” he said. “We put an aluminum hood and trunklid on the car to get the minimum possible mass there; we redid the door skins, we started building the car essentially from the ground up...So in the end the proportions are similar, but very little is actually the same.”

They also tossed out the old electronics which in 2009 were viewed as below par.

The only thing Manson could say was definitely identical between SS and GXP is the rear suspension and the mirrors.

Most interesting is the differences in supply. The G8 was an inventory fiasco for the General, the surplus G8s actually ended up being sold in Australia. This time the SS is being built and shipped about 500 at a time.

Lastly from Manson:

“I reckon if a G8 GXP customer went to a dealership and took a drive in a Chevrolet SS, they'd find that really it's a very different-feeling car, and I'm confident that if they like that they're going to like this even more.”

I know some of you have owned GXPs, some of you own(ed) both. Is the SS really all new or is this just the Generals primed and polished marketing speak?

 

[PRLx1967]

Ok so whats different between the SS and the GXP?

First things first the GXP (G8) was based on the earlier VE Commodore, while SS rolls in based on VF. Granted the changes between VE and VF are evolutionary it is nonetheless another layer between the SS and GXP. Since we last saw the GXP GM has reworked the original Zeta architecture into Zeta 2. To do this they stripped Zeta down to its essentials and decided to start over again.

Says Steve Manson, engineering manager for the project:



all that totaled about 30 lbs of weight loss from the core architecture.

More from Manson:



They also tossed out the old electronics which in 2009 were viewed as below par.

The only thing Manson could say was definitely identical between SS and GXP is the rear suspension and the mirrors.

Most interesting is the differences in supply. The G8 was an inventory fiasco for the General, the surplus G8s actually ended up being sold in Australia. This time the SS is being built and shipped about 500 at a time.

Lastly from Manson:



I know some of you have owned GXPs, some of you own(ed) both. Is the SS really all new or is this just the Generals primed and polished marketing speak?

All new. It's a huge improvement.....lots of other threads about this


Sent from AutoGuide.com App

 

[hdt176]

Chalk & cheese so to speak.
But don't write off the GXP just yet though - they're still a great car.

 

[GXPaycheck]

Chalk & cheese so to speak.
But don't write off the GXP just yet though - they're still a great car.

Ditto! But I am slightly prejudiced

More comparison info here:
http://www.ssforums.com/forum/new-2014-ss-general-discussion-forum/5722-ss-v-g8-gxp-features.html

 

[PFWiz]

Ok so whats different between the SS and the GXP?

First things first the GXP (G8) was based on the earlier VE Commodore, while SS rolls in based on VF. Granted the changes between VE and VF are evolutionary it is nonetheless another layer between the SS and GXP. Since we last saw the GXP GM has reworked the original Zeta architecture into Zeta 2. To do this they stripped Zeta down to its essentials and decided to start over again.

Says Steve Manson, engineering manager for the project:



all that totaled about 30 lbs of weight loss from the core architecture.

More from Manson:



They also tossed out the old electronics which in 2009 were viewed as below par.

The only thing Manson could say was definitely identical between SS and GXP is the rear suspension and the mirrors.

Most interesting is the differences in supply. The G8 was an inventory fiasco for the General, the surplus G8s actually ended up being sold in Australia. This time the SS is being built and shipped about 500 at a time.

Lastly from Manson:



I know some of you have owned GXPs, some of you own(ed) both. Is the SS really all new or is this just the Generals primed and polished marketing speak?

I don't believe our current SS cars are built on the Zeta II platform. Actually I am pretty sure there is no Zeta II yet. The current car is built on an updated Zeta platform.

To quote Motor Authority;

"Car and Driver is reporting that a successor is planned, based on a heavily updated version of the Zeta platform found in the current SS (the most recent update was only a minor one). This updated platform, code-named Zeta II, is said to be used for both an SS successor and a new sports wagon that successor will spawn. The wagon has previously been hinted at by General Motors product chief Mark Reuss and may end up reviving Chevy’s Nomad nameplate."

Chevy SS Successor May Be Built In North America, Spawn Wagon Variant

 

[z51vett]

They are Zeta II platforms, they refer it to it in several articles.
z51vett
Dougccasion14:

 

[brianch]

The GXP still stands as a great car. The SS is just better And prices for them are still dam high.

 

[PFWiz]

They are Zeta II platforms, they refer it to it in several articles.
z51vett
Dougccasion14:

Here are three more articles with links that show that we are riding a Zeta not a Zeta II vehicle.

1) Wikipedia the Zeta Platform article;
"Although the future of the Zeta program was in doubt during GM's financial crisis, in May 21, 2009, Holden began the development of an updated, lighter and more economical form of the platform. The new version of the Zeta platform was introduced with the new Holden VF Commodore in Australia and the Chevrolet SS in the United States in 2013.
[1] [2] "
GM Zeta platform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) Go Auto from Australia says Comodore is still testing engines for future (2016) use in the Zeta platform;
"GENERAL Motors is testing a powerful turbocharged four-cylinder petrol engine in a vehicle based on the Australian-engineered Zeta platform that underpins Holden’s VE and VF Commodore."
Holden 2016 Commodore - GM Zeta prototype gets four-pot Opel OPC power | GoAuto

3) Left Lane say the current Zeta platform may not last beyond 2016;
"A revised Holden Commodore, known as the VF, will debut on the Zeta platform for the 2013 model year, but the platform's future remains unclear beyond the 2016 model year. Holden, GM's Australian division, has committed to producing two vehicles based on global architectures beyond the 2016 model year, but the Zeta is not one of them."
Is GM's Zeta platform nearing the end? | New and Used Car Reviews, Research & Automotive-Industry News & LeftLaneNews

Anyway that is a total of 4 separate sources that I have cited and given links to. Not to mention I WORK FOR GM ON THE PLATFORM END!

What more is it gonna take to make you believe. Or are you just going keep stating "the world is flat" over and over?

Sorry if I am getting snippy, but this same silly argument is going on on all the forums in multiple places on each one...... sheesh

 

[ozstrat]

Huh?
I checked Wikipedia and my version says that major upgrades to Zeta began in 2009. Every Oz car magazine that has reviewed the VF refers to it as Zeta 11, not to mention Holden itself.
There is no argument, the SS is on Zeta 11.
There will be no further upgrades, Holden is closing shop.

 

[jbak]

I'm sure the SS is nicer in many ways. I'll have to drive one pretty soon to see. But I'd have to apply all the mods I've done to my GXP in order to give the SS a fair shake. A stock SS would feel pretty tame compared to my modded GXP.

But the SS interior looks nice. The paddle shifters are cool. The tranny tuning is probably better. Handling should be better (although the GXP ain't bad).

I like the looks and rarity of the GXP. I think they should have given the SS more power... like say 450 or so stock. Then I might get one.

 

[ozstrat]

The SS could have been nicer.
GM bankruptcy hit Holden particularly hard. The cessation of the G8 program sent them into the red, but when GMNA repatriated most of the funds Holden had set aside for VF development, they faced a quandary. All new sheet metal or full Zeta 11 chassis upgrade. They chose the latter.
Without the budget for all new sheet metal, engineering in the LT1 could not have been a consideration, along with many other things Holden would have liked to have done had their budget not been swiped.
At least by sticking with the LS3 there is a much larger aftermarket available than for the LT1.

 

[PRLx1967]

I'm sure the SS is nicer in many ways. I'll have to drive one pretty soon to see. But I'd have to apply all the mods I've done to my GXP in order to give the SS a fair shake. A stock SS would feel pretty tame compared to my modded GXP.

But the SS interior looks nice. The paddle shifters are cool. The tranny tuning is probably better. Handling should be better (although the GXP ain't bad).

I like the looks and rarity of the GXP. I think they should have given the SS more power... like say 450 or so stock. Then I might get one.

One thing about the Hp is this drive train seems to lose less hp to the wheels than the gxp. I think they keep the same rating to save money....


//Nick

 

[monaroCountry]

I don't believe our current SS cars are built on the Zeta II platform. Actually I am pretty sure there is no Zeta II yet. The current car is built on an updated Zeta platform.

To quote Motor Authority;

"Car and Driver is reporting that a successor is planned, based on a heavily updated version of the Zeta platform found in the current SS (the most recent update was only a minor one). This updated platform, code-named Zeta II, is said to be used for both an SS successor and a new sports wagon that successor will spawn. The wagon has previously been hinted at by General Motors product chief Mark Reuss and may end up reviving Chevy’s Nomad nameplate."

Chevy SS Successor May Be Built In North America, Spawn Wagon Variant

If Holden says Zeta II then its Zeta II.

This is why I refer to the newest Camaro as Zeta 1.5 because while the chassis was improved from when Holden developed it, it did not receive the same strip to base and start again as the all new Holden's (including the Chevrolet SS).

Maybe this is where Car and Driver is mixing things up, since America's Zeta Camaro only received a minor upgrade while Holden basically throwing out the baby along with the bath tub, and try go out with a bang (manufacturing RIP in 2017 but most likely having a staggered shutdown far earlier).

In anycase Holden wont be be doing any major development on the platform, between now and 2017. As good as the current platform is (still betters the current E63 AMG), it is past its due date as per Holdens original plans. The current platform was never supposed to live as long at the previous Holden developed platform, that started with the VT commodore. The Zeta was supposed to have half the number of major upgrades but also planned to only exist half as long. This plan went to the toilet when GM America told Holden to develop this and develop that, which eventually lost Holden many many millions and millions when GM canned or modified it i.e. the GMC Delani (meant to be GM's backup plan if CAFE was extended to trucks), the Camaro (originally developed by Holden as a LHD and RHD and that Australia was supposed to get), the Alpha platform as seen in Holden's 2004 Torana concept that Holden doesnt even get credit for (GM wanted Holden to develop a smaller car since GM believed that Holden needed a smaller Commodore) and a few others that I cant remember.........you can see these conflicts through interviews between the "true Holden and HSV" guys like Tony Hyde, Peter Hanenberger, and Joel Stoddart who were all pushed out by the "GM appointed" guys like Denny Mooney, Mike Devereux, and even Mark Reuss.

 

[monaroCountry]

The SS could have been nicer.
GM bankruptcy hit Holden particularly hard. The cessation of the G8 program sent them into the red, but when GMNA repatriated most of the funds Holden had set aside for VF development, they faced a quandary. All new sheet metal or full Zeta 11 chassis upgrade. They chose the latter.
Without the budget for all new sheet metal, engineering in the LT1 could not have been a consideration, along with many other things Holden would have liked to have done had their budget not been swiped.
At least by sticking with the LS3 there is a much larger aftermarket available than for the LT1.

Thats right to a degree. Holden in the end decided on improving the chassis and handling, as theyve always had. But because of funding constraints (remember GM raided Holden profits) they could not do a whole new platform, they instead stripped the existing to base and built it up again, as a result they could not upgrade the hard points, this is why the door lines remain the same. The easy sheet metal was changed also but it was not a wholesale change.

 

[jbak]

One thing about the Hp is this drive train seems to lose less hp to the wheels than the gxp. I think they keep the same rating to save money....


//Nick

If it's lighter and loses less HP then the straight line numbers should be better... right ?

But I haven't seen that so far. It would be much easier to see getting an SS if it was starting from better numbers.

 

[monaroCountry]

If it's lighter and loses less HP then the straight line numbers should be better... right ?

But I haven't seen that so far. It would be much easier to see getting an SS if it was starting from better numbers.

It pretty much is getting better numbers. 4.5 under rag reviews is excellent. But really, the old car and the new car is not too far off each other in weight. BUT that is only because Holden has added in a whole bunch of gadgets and new technology including safety into the new car. Most new cars nowdays have bloated well past of 4000lbs, its testament to amazing engineering that the new SS is below this 4000lbs number.

Now the main difference between the old one and the new one is 1) technology, 2) safety, and 3) handling and comfort. Straight line numbers is not as important to Aussies as having a great handling cars. This is why the SS slaughters the much more powerful SRT8 around corners, hangs with the more expensive BMW M5's and is eyeballing the much smaller and much more expensive Cadillac ATS V sport.

Many mags have compared the SS handling to the previous gen Corvette, and one have even called it the "gifted offspring of a BMW M5 and a Camaro".

 

[jbak]

It pretty much is getting better numbers. 4.5 under rag reviews is excellent.

Straight line numbers is not as important to Aussies as having a great handling cars.

I like both handling and straight line performance. (Braking too for that matter.) But 0-60 numbers don't mean much to me because 0-60 is as much about traction as anything. QM trap speeds tell me a lot more. And they seem about the same as the GXP.

As for handling, I can't wait to meet up with one on a track day. And take one for a test drive.

 

[monaroCountry]

I like both handling and straight line performance. (Braking too for that matter.) But 0-60 numbers don't mean much to me because 0-60 is as much about traction as anything. QM trap speeds tell me a lot more. And they seem about the same as the GXP.

As for handling, I can't wait to meet up with one on a track day. And take one for a test drive.

If you want to get a faster one thats equally good around corners then you can go with the CTS Vsport fully optioned to go 0.1 quicker. Then youll be loosing out on usable room and paying a few spare change more.

I really cant see why anyone can complain, this car is a bargain full stop. As for the GXP well its already been shown to be slower and less capable around a track and at handling, its also fact that it doesnt have as much new stuff in it.

 

[black magic]

I hear you on the "doesn't have as much new stuff in it", but where has it been documented that the GXP is "slower and less capable around a track"? I'm not knocking what you say, I just would like to see the numbers of a side-by-side comparison.

 

[GXPaycheck]

I hear you on the "doesn't have as much new stuff in it", but where has it been documented that the GXP is "slower and less capable around a track"? I'm not knocking what you say, I just would like to see the numbers of a side-by-side comparison.

Ditto.