5 Sleepers - Page 2 - Chevy SS Forum
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 11:18 AM
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The 2012 Regal GS was a pretty good car, above average quality and materials and it actually drove much lighter than it was. But it wasn't a sleeper due to its acceleration, the manual made it special. It also had the most comfortable sport seats I think any GM model has had.

One of its biggest shortcomings to me besides the over taxed motor was the fact that it looked like the size of a Mazda 6 on the outside but with the interior space of a Mazda 3.

I don't regret my time with it though. But i do wish it had the full Opel Insignia VXR drivetrain.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 01:14 PM
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The 2012 Regal GS was a pretty good car, above average quality and materials and it actually drove much lighter than it was. But it wasn't a sleeper due to its acceleration, the manual made it special. It also had the most comfortable sport seats I think any GM model has had.

One of its biggest shortcomings to me besides the over taxed motor was the fact that it looked like the size of a Mazda 6 on the outside but with the interior space of a Mazda 3.

I don't regret my time with it though. But i do wish it had the full Opel Insignia VXR drivetrain.
When you design and tune cars by default for autobahns and mountain roads and narrow lanes as part of your/their standard duty cycle, you get mainstream cars that are more precise, more composed and more shake-free. That's why every (European) Ford, Opel and VW feel better than we expect.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 02:15 PM
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When you design and tune cars by default for autobahns and mountain roads and narrow lanes as part of your/their standard duty cycle, you get mainstream cars that are more precise, more composed and more shake-free. That's why every (European) Ford, Opel and VW feel better than we expect.
I would also put Mazda up there. The GS really drove like a much smaller car than it is while the SS drives like more like the great car for it's size. Both aforementioned statements are complements to their handling, but there's a noteworthy distinction to be parsed out.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 02:37 PM
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Funny, to me personally the Marauder was the opposite of a sleeper - looked and sounded meaner than it really was (I'll catch some gas for it but honestly to some extent so was the '94-96 Impy SS). The 4.6 DOHC was not ideal for a heavy car, no low end and was a rev'er - but a blower goes a long way. Again both the Marauder and Impala looked good, but really in stock form weren't very quick.

Regal GS I can somewhat agree with, again it's really not fast in a straight line but it is an excellent handling and braking car. Either CD or MT gave it the "Best Handling FWD" nod for 2012. I greatly enjoyed mine, would've been about perfect with about 350hp and AWD.

SHOs are definite sleepers and with a tune (such as our friends at Livernois) they run well into the 12s, and AWD is always a strong advantage on the street.

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 03:15 PM
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Funny, to me personally the Marauder was the opposite of a sleeper - looked and sounded meaner than it really was (I'll catch some gas for it but honestly to some extent so was the '94-96 Impy SS). The 4.6 DOHC was not ideal for a heavy car, no low end and was a rev'er - but a blower goes a long way. Again both the Marauder and Impala looked good, but really in stock form weren't very quick.

Regal GS I can somewhat agree with, again it's really not fast in a straight line but it is an excellent handling and braking car. Either CD or MT gave it the "Best Handling FWD" nod for 2012. I greatly enjoyed mine, would've been about perfect with about 350hp and AWD.

SHOs are definite sleepers and with a tune (such as our friends at Livernois) they run well into the 12s, and AWD is always a strong advantage on the street.
An important ingredient for the excellent steering and handling of the Insignia/Regal GS was the "Hyper-Strut" front suspension which separated the steering axis from the top mount. This allows greater caster and smaller king pin inclination than is possible with a regular McPherson strut and therefore better on-center feel and less understeer in tighter corners. It also reduces torque steer (actually its foremost purpose) and sensitivity to wheel imbalance. Not nearly as complex as Audi's front 5 link and much lower steering friction.
See pic...
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 03:42 PM
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I would also put Mazda up there.
Yup, as a whole Mazda always had more "driving feel" in their DNA than the other Japanese OEMs, exceptions notwithstanding (Honda S2000, Subaru WRX, a couple others). However, they were usually lacking in structural "tightness" until the first Mazda 3 which was based on Ford's outstanding C1 platform (gen 2 Focus & Volvo S40). The autobahn "cruising jet" feel requires the rigidity and tuning/damping out of shake the Japanese did not generally focus on.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoram View Post
An important ingredient for the excellent steering and handling of the Insignia/Regal GS was the "Hyper-Strut" front suspension which separated the steering axis from the top mount. This allows greater caster and smaller king pin inclination than is possible with a regular McPherson strut and therefore better on-center feel and less understeer in tighter corners. It also reduces torque steer (actually its foremost purpose) and sensitivity to wheel imbalance. Not nearly as complex as Audi's front 5 link and much lower steering friction.
See pic...
Shout out to Hyper-strut. It was originally SAAB tech. They knew a thing or two about making FWD not be a draw back.

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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 10:24 PM
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Shout out to Hyper-strut. It was originally SAAB tech. They knew a thing or two about making FWD not be a draw back.

A variation on the concept was first used on the Nissan Primera (our Infiniti G20) in the early 90's, almost 20 years before GM's HiPerStrut (pic 1). A similar but much more elegant all aluminum execution was used on the Peugeot 407 starting 2003 (pic 2), and finally a closer design to the HiPerStrut was used on the Renault Megane Sport from 2004 (pic 3). Ford started using the concept around 2010, about the same time as GM, on the Focus RS (pic 4). Pic 5 is a Ford diagram explaining quite well the concept, which they called the RevoKnuckle. The Renault, GM and Ford designs are quite similar and are all variants of McPherson struts. The Nissan and Peugeot ones are similar to each other but essentially SLA geometries with decoupled steering axis.

Let's just say that GM (or SAAB) was a rather late adopter...

I owned 2 "classic" SAAB 900 Turbo for many years, and have driven several SAAB 9000 Turbo (all from before the ill fated GM takeover). Delightful cars. They had very different front suspensions (SLA and strut) yet both had horrendous torque steer.... and pretty radical throttle-off oversteer... which made for some exciting driving when pushed hard... But I digress.
Attached Images
File Type: png Nissan Primera FS Expl.png (43.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg Peugeot-407.jpg (170.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: png Renault Megane Sport FS.png (32.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Ford-revoknuckle.jpg (52.0 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Revoknuckle Diagram.jpg (55.0 KB, 5 views)
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoram View Post

Let's just say that GM (or SAAB) was a rather late adopter...

I owned 2 "classic" SAAB 900 Turbo for many years, and have driven several SAAB 9000 Turbo (all from before the ill fated GM takeover). Delightful cars. They had very different front suspensions (SLA and strut) yet both had horrendous torque steer.... and pretty radical throttle-off oversteer... which made for some exciting driving when pushed hard... But I digress.

I think the first GM car to get HiPer strut was the NG 9-5 aero. Thats where i was going.

I had a 9000 Aero, best all around car ever. But the suspension was so so. I actually never had torque steer issues on mine, unlike the viggens.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:45 AM
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I think the first GM car to get HiPer strut was the NG 9-5 aero. Thats where i was going.

I had a 9000 Aero, best all around car ever. But the suspension was so so. I actually never had torque steer issues on mine, unlike the viggens.
Interesting...

You know how VW fixed their torque steer problems (especially big in Diesels)?? Software algorithms in the EPS... another advantage of EPS besides fuel economy...
Like most things nowadays -- cheaper to mask stuff electronically than to fix it mechanically... but I digress again.

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