Whipple tune question - Chevy SS Forum
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post #1 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Whipple tune question

On my recent Whipple install I've been using a tune sent to me by Livernois and overall it's worked rather well. I've only had one real item I've been trying to track down and I'm not 100% sure if it's tune or hardware based. Off boost the car drives and feels very much pre-Whipple, WOT it's well it's a supercharged LS3 nuff said there. The area where something feels off is gradual rolling into boost from vacuum. It feels like right where the car transitions from like ~1 to 2 inches of vacuum till boost there is what feels like a hesitation. It's only right there and seems to be in that window, it ends with what feels like a surge of power like something was stuck for a second. It's not a smooth transition. Under mild throttle when this happens it feels like a 50 shot of nitrous hitting, nothing earth shattering but very abrupt. Medium to heavier throttle it's felt as well but shorter duration and more ooomph. WOT doesn't feel like it's really there but then it could be but happens so fast I'm not sensing it. This all kinda makes me feel like it's tune based because the ramp in pressure or air/fuel just aren't meeting the tables expectations.

Now here's where the thought of mechanical comes to mind. During this short window (or long if the throttle is held right on the edge of switching over) there is an distinct audible shrill or whistle (no not the SC) that sounds like a lot of air being sucked through a tiny accordion straw. As soon as the boost starts the sound stops immediately and doesn't seem to do it rolling out of boost (need to test this better). My first thoughts were the bypass valve wasn't set properly or it's stuck. I've tested it with a vacuum pump and due to a different problem with it was replaced with a new one from Whipple. I've also preloaded the bypass by setting it closer per Whipples instruction to see if that did it. Nothing helped. I have checked the hoses and they seem fine and secure. I've also looked everything over for obvious leaks as well with nothing showing up. The car idles and drives fine other than this with no codes.

Whipples been very helpful but I understand theyíre limited to a point because itís not their tune. Iíve reached out to LMS today as well to see if theyíve heard of this before. I also asked them if I'm able to roll back to the stock tune with the mycalibrator and then load the stock Whipple tune via HPTuners to see if this solved it. That could at least potentially rule out the tune side of it. Has anyone experienced this previously or have some suggestions? The bulk of my online queries end up coming back to the 6G mustang guys who experienced something like this like 2 years ago with Whipple chargers but it looks like it was solved with some tuning (that problem was different here, was a cam timing issue).

-Steve

2017 SS [PBM 1 of 72 with sunroof, inflator & manual]
Whipple Supercharged, Rotofab & LMS tune
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post #2 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 05:27 PM
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Steve,
I am no expert so just my thoughts here, along with phone questions and info from tuner dude down here...


The bypass valve is spring loaded, make sure there are NO kinks, pinch points on the vacuum lines feeding the bypass valve.It still could be a slight diaphragm issue only under load to unload condition.
I agree there may also be small issue in the A/F table in the phase change from non-boosted to boosted operation.
(My) tuner dude says "it don't take much in that area for it to feel if it were falling on it's face for a second or two before boost comes in and WOT happens, and all is good .


The only real way to see is Dyno time and watching what the duty cycle on the injectors is doing verses what A/F ratio is saying, verses just what boost pressure is doing. per turner dude.
Did your tune also improve the Trans pressures for shifting under load? (Not my question not smart enough to ask it) Tuner dude question.


Good luck,


Cheers,
tp
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post #3 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Steve,

The bypass valve is spring loaded, make sure there are NO kinks, pinch points on the vacuum lines feeding the bypass valve.It still could be a slight diaphragm issue only under load to unload condition.
I agree there may also be small issue in the A/F table in the phase change from non-boosted to boosted operation.
(My) tuner dude says "it don't take much in that area for it to feel if it were falling on it's face for a second or two before boost comes in and WOT happens, and all is good .

The only real way to see is Dyno time and watching what the duty cycle on the injectors is doing verses what A/F ratio is saying, verses just what boost pressure is doing. per turner dude.
Did your tune also improve the Trans pressures for shifting under load? (Not my question not smart enough to ask it) Tuner dude question.
Thanks fully the vacuum line for the bypass is one of the easiest to check as it's only 3 inches long To be safe I even replaced the hose that came with the kit for good measure.

Regarding the trans pressure for shifting, I'm a lucky 6 speed manual guy so only pressure increase is on my sphincter when I floor it .

LMS got back to me just a short while ago and they want me to test it on the different traction control modes. I'll give those a whirl tonight when I get out of here. Although I have been using track mode a lot more lately, oh momma THATS how the car should drive all the time. I love the steering and pedals firmed up.

-Steve

2017 SS [PBM 1 of 72 with sunroof, inflator & manual]
Whipple Supercharged, Rotofab & LMS tune
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post #4 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 08:02 PM
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Mine had a similar issue and I had a kink in the vacuum line fir the bypass valve. I cut the line down shorter to eliminate the kink. But it sounds like youíve already eliminated this from your testing.

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post #5 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 03:36 AM
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Have you checked the range of movement for the bypass valve? It can bind if installed in a certain position.
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post #6 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
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Have you checked the range of movement for the bypass valve? It can bind if installed in a certain position.
Good call on that I'm gonna check that on lunch with the car running. I've looked at it when the car was running on the old one and the bypass was working at idle. It held the bypass plate open at roughly a 45 or like \ - against the set pin on the SC. I would have thought it was further back but honestly I can't remember if the car was warmed up or not so that could have played in to it.

So what kind of vacuum levels are others seeing on the engine after it's warmed up? I need to get a mechanical vac/boost gauge installed as I learned from many days with turbo'd cars the vacuum side of things can be a great indicator of engine / tune health. I can see what the HPTuners is showing but I still need to figure out how to convert it from the map reading of 3.6psi at idle to vacuum-->boost. I see there's a formula or calculation for it in one of the drop downs at the top. Just need some time to learn more about the app.

I tested the LMS suggestions last night with the different modes and it does it in all 4 modes. It seems more pronounced in 2nd and 3rd gear at @2500+ rpm. If I rolled in med hard at <2k it did not seem to do it that I could tell.

-Steve

2017 SS [PBM 1 of 72 with sunroof, inflator & manual]
Whipple Supercharged, Rotofab & LMS tune
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post #7 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 09:18 AM
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I can tell you right now, its not mechanical. Its the tune. Have them fix it.

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post #8 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 12:21 PM
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My tune that Whipple sent me had a hesitation off idle acceleration and would set long term fuel trim codes occasionally. I spoke with Whipple and they said I probably had a vacuum leak. They supplied me new intake gaskets and I was very careful the second time and guess what? Same thing. The tunes they supply are generic and if I were you I would not mess with anything except the basic checking it over until you take it to a tuner (dyno or street tune) and have it tuned/tweaked. There are a few of us that had issues with a generic tune. Look at some of the other Whipple posts.

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post #9 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 09:00 AM
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Both tunes indicate a condition. Both tunes worked for other customers. What is different on your vehicle? Your computer will try to adjust for changes in inputs differently with each tune. After all the common sense diy tests are exhausted, find a shop that can test and tune your vehicle properly. Canned tunes work when all the variables fit in the tuners baselines. Evidently your vehicle does not fit. As evidenced by issues during transitions, you have a condition that falls outside the tunes capability to allow for the smoothing of the changes in fuel, air and spark. Keep trying to figure out what is different with your vehicle. If possible, start over with a quality custom tune and evaluation. I am not a Livernois fan (bad experience) but they should be able to help if they would take the time and have the right mechanic-tuner personally work on your car. Good luck. I have started over from square one with no locked tunes allowed. Custom or otherwise, being trapped in a tune leaves limited options. HP and N Gauge is my option of choice now. You have a great package. With proven results. Keep that in mind and enjoy the good stuff while you work out the small bugs. I salute you for doing your own work. Use outside help when you need it. Even a local garage may sniff out your condition where you can’t find it.
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post #10 of 92 (permalink) Old 02-08-2019, 10:37 AM
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What size restrictor is in the bypass valve? sometimes whipple includes none, sometimes they include the wrong one. Their bypass valve is VERY touchy so the transition from vacuum to boost can happen almost instantly. If the restrictor isn't present, or it's too big this makes the problem worse.

We always suggest addressing the mechanical aspect first as you don't want to tune around an issue, you want a tune to help diagnose issues. Unfortunately most places choose to tune around problems, which can lead to other issues later.
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