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Is my SS slow?

23K views 119 replies 56 participants last post by  jonnylaw 
#1 ·
Maybe I am imagining it. I mean, I have no ability to really measure it. The SS is no slouch for sure but, I feel my old M3 is faster. And maybe it's me, but when I sit in the old M it just feels so good. Like supple and comfy and direct. The SS feels rigid and uninspiring.
I am not bashing my new car and that is not why I am posting this, I am just curious if others feel the same way?
For instance, there is a certain hill that my kids love for me to floor the car going up. Typically I go WOT up the hill to a certain point then slow for the gradual left turn at the top so I don't crash and kill myself and kids. Anyway, I noticed that in the M I hit @100mph but in the SS its like 84-86mph.
I know that hard numbers the two cars are similar but I guess I was expecting more form the SS.
Time for a SC I suppose..

 
#34 ·
My SS feels like a rocket ship compared to my M Coupe and M3, but both of them just have the S52.

If believing published times, the SS should be slightly quicker than the E46 M3.

When I was serious about finding an E46 M3 for myself around 2012, I drove a few E46s and they all seemed to feel different in regard to acceleration. Maybe you are lucky with a healthier engine.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Maybe I am imagining it. I mean, I have no ability to really measure it. The SS is no slouch for sure but, I feel my old M3 is faster. And maybe it's me, but when I sit in the old M it just feels so good. Like supple and comfy and direct. The SS feels rigid and uninspiring.
I am not bashing my new car and that is not why I am posting this, I am just curious if others feel the same way?
I own a '04 E46 M3 manual and a '17 SS manual. They are different. I bought the SS since it was different.

My M3 is my daily driver and my track car. Love the seat feel. Love the steering feedback. Like the pedal placement. Love the revs. Hate the low torques. Dislike the stock brakes but I make them work on track with the right pad. Confidence driving the car at 10/10ths on the track. I enjoy driving the car every time I get behind the wheel.

Still getting to know the SS. Seat does not provide enough side support. Steering feedback is non-existent but reasonably precise. Pedal placement is awkward (and non-existent dead pedal). Getting used to low revs. Appreciate the low-end torques. Happy with stock brakes. Appreciate the car's uniqueness, the Holden heritage, the extra set of doors and the 5 to 6-body trunk. Like that the LS3 is highly modifiable. Looking forward to experiencing the car on track in stock form. I enjoy driving the car every time I get behind the wheel.

It is fine to compare the two cars but it is unfair to expect similar performance aspects from two very different cars.

My butt says SS accelerates harder but having to shift at 6k looses the momentum. The constant pull from 4-8k in M3 is addicting and feels fast. Would love to see real acceleration numbers for both cars through the first three gears.

For those who say the SS is "better" than E46 M3 they are wrong. The two cars are different.
 
#40 ·
I too felt the SS was a little underwhelming on my test drive. It felt slower than my wife's xc60 r design which had a pretty sensitive throttle and a turbo. The SS was faster but the power delivery is so linear that you don't really get that throw you back in the seat jump in power of a turbo or supercharger. However - I will say with the intake headers and tune on an m6 SS - it feels fast and is fast! So go in for a mod or two. I think you will get the 10 to 15% percent bump you need. If you want to go all out then supercharge it!


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#41 ·
Boy I know that feeling. My Mazdaspeed 3 was putting down about 340whp but it was very much putting your foot down and then feeling the rush of building power as the turbo spooled up. Felt so dramatic that it is an adjustment having the more flat power band of the LS3 now.
 
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#50 ·
I've never posted a thread with so many responses!! I feel honored!
I'm enjoying the replies really. Don't really find anything to disagree with here. I do think that the big motor and overall size of the car belies it's actual performance level. You really don't "feel" it. I drove the M yesterday to work. And today I drove the SS. I purposely looked at the speedometer (shouldn't we all?) and I did notice that the SS feels more relaxed at the same speeds. For reference I keep the car in sport mode. The M really doesn't do well on anything other than glass smooth roads. That could be some of the misconception. I remember going somewhere with my wife maybe a wedding? And we were in the M. She bitched more than once about how bouncy and rough the ride felt. Haven't heard her complain about the SS.
As a side question, with TC on in the SS if there is wheel slip, does the car tell you anything? I'm asking because on the M the TC light blinks when there is wheel slip. I haven't noticed it on the SS. It seems to hook up better than the the other. Or maybe I'm not hammering it enough lol [emoji23]


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#53 ·
As a side question, with TC on in the SS if there is wheel slip, does the car tell you anything? I'm asking because on the M the TC light blinks when there is wheel slip. I haven't noticed it on the SS. It seems to hook up better than the the other. Or maybe I'm not hammering it enough lol [emoji23]


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That's what you guys (LEO) are doing on the side of the road when I pass you speeding, think I'm going to get pulled over and you just sit there... Posting on a internet forum!

The TC light flashes when it's active. I rarely see it on my stock SS. My Whipple SS I see it a lot when I leave traction control on. Earlier this year, it was about 35 degrees and I was hammering on it (Whipple car) between 60 and a 100, the traction light was flashing the whole pull. Michelin pilot super spots don't like the cold.
 
#51 ·
I'm always telling my friends this is a great time to be alive, during this golden era of factory horsepower wars. Demons pull wheelies off the showroom floor. 650hp supercharged Camaros that can turn, too. And these damned Teslas, lol. I remember daydreaming about cars in Autotrader when I was in highschool. Mustangs and Camaros had 225hp and ran 14s, iirc. A 12sec car was like supercar territory, lol.

But, yes, my stock m6 feels like it should be pulling harder. And with the competition getting so fierce lately, it wont be long before I'm looking at superchargers.
 
#52 ·
What you are noting is how a very flat, long torque curve can be deceptively fast over a more peaky curve. The peakier torque curve is going to feel as if it comes on quicker and more abrupt, but the flatter curve will just keep steadily pulling (and realistically leave you ahead in the 1/4 mile).

Great example of this was back when GM switched from the Gen 2 LT1 to the Gen 3 LS1 in '97/'98. The LT1's torque peaked earlier, so the LT1 guys were convinced the LS1 was no faster. The LS1's curve peaked a bit higher but carried it much further before it fell off, a broader and wider torque curve. The LS1 in either an Fbody (cam/bird) or a Ybody (vette) was at least a half second and 4-5mph faster. Even more drastic was the old L98 TPI 5.7, that was practically a truck motor, torque peaked around 3K and the motor was out of breath after 4500.

So yeah, I'd expect the E46 I6 motor which spins past 8k to have a much peakier torque curve over a motor with about twice as much displacement.

The other thing as mentioned is the stock tune, torque management and throttle progression is way soft on these cars.
 
#76 ·
Great example of this was back when GM switched from the Gen 2 LT1 to the Gen 3 LS1 in '97/'98. The LT1's torque peaked earlier, so the LT1 guys were convinced the LS1 was no faster. The LS1's curve peaked a bit higher but carried it much further before it fell off, a broader and wider torque curve. The LS1 in either an Fbody (cam/bird) or a Ybody (vette) was at least a half second and 4-5mph faster. Even more drastic was the old L98 TPI 5.7, that was practically a truck motor, torque peaked around 3K and the motor was out of breath after 4500.
Yep. Exactly. I think a lot of us (me included) who feel like the SS is "slow" probably still have the mentality that big domestic NA V8's should have tire roasting torque at the blip of a throttle. Most of these NA LS engines require you to wind them out to 6K+ to really put a smile on your face. I drove a base C6 (same engine as the SS) for an extended time several years ago, and I remember feeling similarly "disappointed" with the power in that car. I was fully aware at the time that it was capable of 115+ mph through the 1/4-mile traps, but it just felt slow even when goosed somewhat hard. Some actual Corvette owners posted similar complaints online back in the day, so the feeling definitely isn't unique or unique to the SS.

Despite what the butt dyno says though, it's deceptively TOO easy to hit triple digits (so I've heard) in the SS when you go WOT on the highway just to hear the amazing engine sounds. Before I got this car, every time I read someone say something like, "I looked down at my speedo and was shocked at how fast I was going..." I thought it was just hyperbole, but nope it's 100% true. A 350hp turbo-4 that only weighs 3500 lbs might *feel* a whole heck of a lot faster than the SS, but it's not and will probably get walked at highway speeds by a stock SS. And you'll definitely know when you're going over 80mph in that thing.
 
#55 ·
After I bought the car, I bounced off the limiter a few times because I had gotten used to the high RPM pull after dogging heavily under 3k RPM (Coyote). The acceleration with the LS3 feels so much different. I'd look down at the speedometer and mutter "holy **** whoops". It feels slower than it is in my mind when accelerating because I'm just used to a very different curve.

As far as slow around corners, I know it didn't corner as well as some of my previous cars, I put a lot of time and effort into the Mustang and it could fly through corners.... But I also felt pretty **** scared when pushing that envelope, here's that grape on a knife analogy again. The stock SS envelope was tighter but the thing I love is that it is very confidence inspiring at and near its limits. It makes me feel like a better driver even though I know I'm not, and as a bonus it isn't a hair or crack or pebble away from killing me around every corner.
 
#56 ·
After I bought the car, I bounced off the limiter a few times because I had gotten used to the high RPM pull after dogging heavily under 3k RPM (Coyote). The acceleration with the LS3 feels so much different. I'd look down at the speedometer and mutter "holy **** whoops". It feels slower than it is in my mind when accelerating because I'm just used to a very different curve.

As far as slow around corners, I know it didn't corner as well as some of my previous cars, I put a lot of time and effort into the Mustang and it could fly through corners.... But I also felt pretty **** scared when pushing that envelope, here's that grape on a knife analogy again. The stock SS envelope was tighter but the thing I love is that it is very confidence inspiring at and near its limits. It makes me feel like a better driver even though I know I'm not, and as a bonus it isn't a hair or crack or pebble away from killing me around every corner.
After my Autox experience this weekend, I'll say the car is very tossable and I still felt well in control even when I purposely kicked it sideways more than once. This is coming from someone inexperienced on the track. My only real experience in turns are on old country roads back where I'm from.
 
#57 ·
Vitesse throttle controller

I originally had the impression that my A6 SS was slower than it should be, especially compared to other vehicles that I have driven. Even in sport mode it seemed like you really had to mash the pedal to get it to do anything, and when it did there was a fine line between a bit faster and full throttle. A CAI and a tune certainly did help, but I thought I would have to add a SC to the mix before it would feel right to me. I decided to get a Vitesse throttle controller for it, and it made a world of difference. You don't have to push the pedal as far to get the car to downshift and go compared to stock. The car feels much more responsive, and is much more enjoyable to drive now.

I will probably still do a supercharger in the future because this unit does not add any HP to the engine, so full throttle is the same as it always was, but I am much happier with the feel of the car now. Best $179 I ever spent, and it is easy to remove without a trace if you have to go in for warranty, unlike a tune. It will probably come in handy if I do get the SC for driving in bad weather as well. There are also settings for slowing down the throttle response as well.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Some of you guys must stay up at night thinking about what wacky things you can come up with to post on forums like this. Lets look at his realistically.....Is the SS fast? Well first we have to define "fast". Fast or the sensation of speed is many things to many people. My youngest owned a couple of Subaru STI's and I thought they were pretty fast. My last real muscle car that I owned, a 1969 RAIV GTO sure seemed fast to me, but it couldn't stop or corner worth a ****. For a period of about 4 years back in the early 1990's I was fortunate enough to have a 1991 Camaro RS squad car issued to me and I know that car was fast and had crazy top speed. Besides my 2017 SS I also own a BMW K1600 motorcycle which for the uniformed has a 6 cylinder engine rated at 160 HP in a 760 pound bike and that's pretty fast. I also own a Colorado pickup truck with a 5.3 liter V8 in it and it's pretty fast and has surprised many an unsuspecting driver. So what is "fast"?

I have yet to really run my SS hard to see what it will ultimately do, as I am pretty much sticking to the prescribed break in procedure outlined in the owners manual. The small amount of playing around that I have done somewhat surprised me as I wasn't feeling that seat of the pants power that I have felt in other vehicles. Forget the K1600 because that's an entirely different dimension than a cage. It finally dawned on me why I wasn't feeling that surge of power that I had in other vehicles. For one thing the SS is fuel injected and not carbureted. In my old GTO when you put the hammer down the "fast" came when the 4 barrel opened up assisted by a 4.33 rear end and you got the kick in your pants rush of power delivery. That same type of power delivery in my old Camaro squad came when you went WOT and the trans downshifted and away you went into crazy speed land.

I don't feel any of that rush of speed if you will in my SS, yet I know it's no slouch based on what I am seeing via the speedometer. So I started thinking about this feeling of lack of speed that I was having and I came to realize that the SS isn't a "fast" car based on what we see and read about regarding truly FAST cars today. If I had an auto trans in my SS I may feel differently based on how power is applied thru an automatic transmission. Power is applied more or less quite differently in a car with an auto trans versus a manual trans equipped vehicle. In my MT equipped SS I am the one responsible for making sure the trans is in the right gear for power delivery. In an AT equipped SS simply flop on the gas pedal and the rest is up to the transmission and related parts to apply power and if things work as they should you will get a "feeling" of speed and power when the trans downshifts for you and off you go. Do I regret getting the M6 in my SS? For the most part no, but there are times when I would like to have the AT. I think half the fun factor for me would be gone though if I had a AT because the M6 gives me more driving pleasure and keeps me more connected to the car. If I was solely interested in speed the AT would have been the way to go.

The other item that gets lost in all this rhetoric is cost. Let's face it, there is/was no better bang for the buck in a decent and comfortable car than the SS, especially if you were lucky enough to get 20% off. Ride in any model Dodge, Mustang or even a Camaro and compare them to an SS and tell me which is the most comfortable. Tell me which one of those cars you would get the most enjoyment from on a long trip. Now some of you are probably thinking, "Yeah but what about this BMW or that Mercedes!" All I can say is how much more money will that BMW or Mercedes cost to own? I think if you really consider all the points, the SS really is the fastest car for the buck. It will certainly take you from zero to traffic citation in just about the same time all the other faster cars will.

Rick H.
 
#59 ·
I don't mean to be harsh here, but a '91 Camaro RS had a 170hp TBI 5.0 with ~250 lb*ft of torque (unless you were unlucky enough to have a 140hp 3.1 V6) . It will struggle to run a mid 16 second quarter mile. It might top out at 130. A 350TPI car (which didn't come in an RS) bumps that up to 250/330 and a mid/low 14.

An SS is at 415/415 out of a 6.2L and will run a bottom 13.

There's not a planet in this solar system where a 170hp TBI 3rd gen is faster than an SS. I will yank 2 plugs on the SS and still beat a dog slow TBI.

If anything it goes back to my last post, you're feeling the peaky torque delivery of the choked off TBI 305 with peanut port heads and a 5K redline over an LS3 that's pulling past 6200.
 
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#62 ·
I've got the simple answer for everyone.


Is your SS slow?


The answer is no, it is not. It's faster than the vast majority of vehicles on the road, most by a significant margin.
 
#64 ·
My 06 M6 GTO feels faster (0-65) but the SS handling is by far superior on the same course.

06 M6 GTO LS2 400HP weight 3725lbs
Final drive ratio for M6 cars is 3.46 & gear ratios are
first (2.97)
second (2.07)
third (1.43)
fourth (1.00)
fifth (0.84)
sixth (0.57)

17 M6 SS LS3 415HP 3960lbs
Final drive ratio for M6 cars is 3.70 & gear ratios are:
first (3.01)
second (2.07)
third (1.43)
fourth (1.00)
fifth (0.71)
sixth (0.57)
 
#81 ·
That's a very good point. I drove mine to Denver and it really actually was slow, it had a loud bark but the bite was a bit dull, it felt a bit neutered. Other than that, my 2014 is still pretty snappy and surprises me still after owning a Hellcat.
 
#70 ·
I too feel the SS doesn't seem "fast" at first. But like many have pointed out the throttle response and torque management play a huge part in this. Part throttle driving is a bit lackluster even with occasional forays to the 7/8 pedal zone. But when you give it full pedal, and all the conditions are met for the PCM to command it, then this car really feels like it comes alive. It's just a bit unfortunate that the motor does not feel as lively as it could. Especially how amazing the chassis is on a windy road. I imagine the engineers must have had their reasons.

I've thought about graphing the APP signal alongside the TP signal just to confirm what I think is happening. Just don't want to start probing the wiring on my new car. There's probably also a bit of timing being pulled during the torque management as well.

I would still call this car fast though. One day I drove when a few of us from work went to lunch. They wanted to check out the car and of course I wanted to show it. Combined we were just over 900lbs and everyone had plenty of room. The freeway by work requires you to stop completely before accelerating into traffic. The SS pulled hard and after shifting to 2nd we started passing the cars that had passed us while we were waiting for an opening. After shifting to 3rd I had to shut down the fun because the OP's brethren would seriously disapprove of our speed. I've got no times to prove anything however the butt dyno and internal clock were impressed. My point being is that I think it would be difficult for many "fast" cars to maintain their performance while fully loaded. And many of those cars can't even fit 4 adults comfortably.


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#77 ·
After riding a zx10r for years, that did 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and 1/4 mile in 10 flat, everything feels slow. The '95 Formula Firebird I had felt faster than the SS, but it was a second slower 0-60 (5.7) and more 1/4 (14.2) but it'd still break loose the tires at 65 with a drop to 3rd and wot.

Also how you own this car in an M6 and not have the TC activate on a regular basis? I think I may be picking up a Vitesse, because the TC kinda bothers me how it shuts you down when trying to have a little fun getting slideways, and the throttle just feels so sluggish when you turn it off.


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#78 ·
Also how you own this car in an M6 and not have the TC activate on a regular basis? I think I may be picking up a Vitesse, because the TC kinda bothers me how it shuts you down when trying to have a little fun getting slideways, and the throttle just feels so sluggish when you turn it off.
Just a tune is all you need. Makes the traction control far less intrusive and the shifts, especially the downshifts, much faster.
:grin
 
#79 ·
As much as I like the Vitesse it does not keep the torque control from shutting you down. I actually have that problem more with it than before because now I am accelerating harder at part throttle than before. The only thing that helps me is to turn it off. Although putting the summer tires back on did help some. The winter tires liked to break loose on the 1-2 shift, and the TC would cut power for a bit.
 
#83 ·
A tune is not going to do S$%T...Maybe 25 HP, BFD...They are a slow performance car by todays' standards...12.8 to 13.3 & 106 to 110 depending on where you live...It's a 4 door grocery getter that handles excellent...They are a 2nd or 3rd car for the family that are fast for a "4 door" but not fast for a 1st car unless you MODIFY HEAVILY !!! IMO...I have the luxury of having 5 Rods sorta speak and my SS is presently #3 on the hit parade in the 1/4 mile...When I bought it new and raced my 35 & 56 against it side by side it was the SLOWEST...MODS came soon after and now it is #3 after many, many thousands of $...Whoopie, #3... But again to the OP, yes it is slow but I bought mine for the looks and I didn't want to spend $50K more on a CTSV.

Greg
 
#86 ·
Yes, because the SS is slower than some of your "rods", it's a slow car, a grocery getter, just fast for a "4 door", only fast if you "MODIFY HEAVILY". I wish I lived the life a few of you guys do that your perception is so skewed that you call the SS a slow car.
 
#89 ·
I think we're getting a bit off-topic from the OP's original question which was essentially why does the SS *feel* slower than a car (E46 M3) that should be no faster (and really slower by all published metrics). Seems the discussion has devolved a bit into arguing about whether the SS actually *is* fast/quick by today's standards, but I'll bite... I think it's fair to say that the speed of a stock SS is absolutely nothing special in the context of relatively affordable performance cars sold today.

Our cars vs a 20-year-old (literally) Corvette is a drivers' race. Heck, the SS keeps getting compared to a near-20-YO M5 (though it's probably one of the reasons a lot of us were so enamored with the SS to begin with). And there are tons of sub-$30K new cars (obviously way more if you consider used) that trap 100+ mph stock. And some of them (specifically those with turbo engines) with $1k in mods will probably walk a stock SS (eg, current generation VW GTIs, which cost almost half what an SS does, with just a tune and downpipe). Coyote Mustangs are already as quick stock as a tuned SS and respond just as well to mods as the LS3. And we all know what the comparably priced 6th gen Camaro can do. Stock acceleration data for the SS just aren't very impressive; it is what it is. But obviously this car is about way more than just straight-line speed. There's a reason we're all here instead of another brand/model's forum. $35k-$50K obviously buys you a lot of car, but we all chose the SS because at the end of the day it offers a combo of things no other cars out there, new or used, offer in this price range (as long as you're not one of those stereotypical all-about-the-brand-image d-bags and are "open-minded" about owning a Chevy).
 
#93 ·
Pretty **** fast to me considering I came from 160 horsepower. You spoiled. Ha!

M3 probably felt faster because of BOOOOOST. Low-end torque will do that to you. Even at sea level, my father's EcoBoost F150 almost feels faster than my SS when you stomp it, because the boost is a kick in the pants that you don't quite get even from a naturally aspirated 6.2L.
 
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